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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 14117
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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 Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| parkerlineage wrote: |
That's exactly why I don't agree with the concept of it being good.
Which then brings me back to, if it exists, from where does it come? Perhaps I'm being too narrow minded? |
There are lots of things that God does not mention in the Bible, like the internet, automobile, computers, and all kinds of things. I know, I probably am sounding silly, but take it for what its worth. I believe that "ki" is in us from day one. Call it spirit, sould, internal energy, or whatever, but I believe we are born with it. I also think that if we are born with it, it is because God put it there, and therefore, is not inherently bad in and of itself. Now, could it be used for evil? Sure, but so can our hands, our minds, and our hearts. But none are inherently bad.
_________________
Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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alsey
Purple Belt
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 501
Location: UK
Styles: shotokan (2nd dan), jujitsu (3rd kyu), kendo (1st dan).
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| parkerlineage wrote: |
Which then brings me back to, if it exists, from where does it come? Perhaps I'm being too narrow minded? |
from my understanding of christianity, god created everything that is natural in the world. the bible mentions demons and witchcraft and stuff but implies that these are supernatural phenomena. i don't see any reason why anyone should believe that ki is supernatural, hence it is part of the natural world that god created. the bible doesn't specifically mention ki (and personally, i don't believe it references it in any way at all), but neither does it condemn it.
now my parents, who are die hard believers, would say the opposite; that ki is supernatural and from the devil, like witchcraft (whatever that is). but the crux of their argument is that it is supernatural, but there isn't really anything to suggest that it is.
_________________
"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana |
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parkerlineage
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 948
Location: Redding, CA
Styles: American Kenpo - 12 years; Danzan Ryu Ju Jitsu - Starting! (Dabbled in Wushu, Eagle Claw)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: |
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I don't really believe in supernatural phenomena, because that implies that God is not in complete control, which I believe He is.
So again, it really goes back to the origin of ki. I have no problem believing that it's a good force of some sort that is naturally in people - okay, I have a little problem - it's just such an inexact science that I'm not entirely sure what to believe. Does anybody have any good articles/reports for or against its existance, and explaining theorized origins?
_________________
American Kenpo Karate- First Degree Black Belt
"He who hesitates, meditates in a horizontal position."
Ed Parker |
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elbows_and_knees
Black Belt
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1795
Styles: thai boxing, grappling
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Do you believe in ghosts? the bible mentions, demons roaming, posessions, etc. These are supernatural. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 14117
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| parkerlineage wrote: |
I don't really believe in supernatural phenomena, because that implies that God is not in complete control, which I believe He is.
So again, it really goes back to the origin of ki. I have no problem believing that it's a good force of some sort that is naturally in people - okay, I have a little problem - it's just such an inexact science that I'm not entirely sure what to believe. Does anybody have any good articles/reports for or against its existance, and explaining theorized origins? |
You have to understand, that I don't think God intended to lay everything out in the Bible. There will be holes in spots, or things not mentioned. Heck, they just found some more scriptures, The Gospel According to Judas. Who knows what they have not found, yet.
_________________
Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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parkerlineage
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 948
Location: Redding, CA
Styles: American Kenpo - 12 years; Danzan Ryu Ju Jitsu - Starting! (Dabbled in Wushu, Eagle Claw)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| elbows_and_knees wrote: |
| Do you believe in ghosts? the bible mentions, demons roaming, posessions, etc. These are supernatural. |
Those are two different yet exactly the same instances. In my opinion, "Ghosts" are no more than merely Satan's angels imitating whatever they want, in order to fool humans.
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| You have to understand, that I don't think God intended to lay everything out in the Bible. There will be holes in spots, or things not mentioned. Heck, they just found some more scriptures, The Gospel According to Judas. Who knows what they have not found, yet. |
I don't understand why He wouldn't. And I've yet to read this Judas thing, but if God deemed it important, why wouldn't He have insipired people to keep it in the scriptures. Although I must say that the entire Council of Naicia really bugs me.
_________________
American Kenpo Karate- First Degree Black Belt
"He who hesitates, meditates in a horizontal position."
Ed Parker |
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parkerlineage
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 948
Location: Redding, CA
Styles: American Kenpo - 12 years; Danzan Ryu Ju Jitsu - Starting! (Dabbled in Wushu, Eagle Claw)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, another thing.
Is ki measurable? Maybe I'm thinking too much like Star Wars, but do some people allegedly have more ki than others?
_________________
American Kenpo Karate- First Degree Black Belt
"He who hesitates, meditates in a horizontal position."
Ed Parker |
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MizuRyu
Green Belt
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 381
Location: Michigan
Styles: Present: Judo/Boxing, Past: Ryu-Te, Tang Soo Do, Wing Chun, BJJ
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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What this ultimately is going to come down to is your personal interpretation of ki according to YOUR faith. Everyone's faith is different. The way I see it, every religion has the same idea, the same basic guidelines, but a different way of presenting and 'enforcing' them. Ki, like God, is something obscure and subjective, it varies from person to person, from place to place. What one person considers holy another person could consider blasphmous.. and so forth. I don't really think there's any right or wrong in this conversation. Ki isn't discovered through evil intent, a pact with satan, or anything of the like; it was found through deep introspection. It is something inherently in all of us, it's a level of understanding that someone achieves, be it of their body, soul, or something else. I'm not really a Christian, but to my understanding things associated with Satan are things associated with personal wrongs and desires. I see Ki as being in no way associated with personal fault, it's just something that's... there. As your soul may be.
Soul = ki? who really knows. And that's entirely the point: no one truely knows, they just interpret.
_________________
"They look up, without realizing they're standing in the palm of your hand"
"I burn alive to keep you warm" |
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alsey
Purple Belt
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 501
Location: UK
Styles: shotokan (2nd dan), jujitsu (3rd kyu), kendo (1st dan).
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| parkerlineage wrote: |
So again, it really goes back to the origin of ki. I have no problem believing that it's a good force of some sort that is naturally in people - okay, I have a little problem - it's just such an inexact science that I'm not entirely sure what to believe. Does anybody have any good articles/reports for or against its existance, and explaining theorized origins? |
no one really agrees on what exactly ki is, so its hard to get anything conclusive on it. you have to define something scientifically before you study it scientifically. personally i think it is a state of mind that influences the body and others' perception of it, and use of the body in certain ways (breathing etc) is required to get into that state of mind. this is something that could be investigated, but a lot of it is psychology which is an inexact science. you won't get black and white answers about it.
_________________
"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana |
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alsey
Purple Belt
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 501
Location: UK
Styles: shotokan (2nd dan), jujitsu (3rd kyu), kendo (1st dan).
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| parkerlineage wrote: |
Oh, another thing.
Is ki measurable? Maybe I'm thinking too much like Star Wars, but do some people allegedly have more ki than others? |
personally i don't believe ki is something, so its not like the midichlorians that mediate the force in star wars  rather ki is a way in which the body and mind are used. some people are better at using ki than others.
you probably use ki yourself. you don't think of it as ki because its nothing special or amazing to you. most MA teach ki manipulation of some kind; breathing, focus, posture, kiai etc, are all part of it. some people are just very good at using ki, to the extent that others go 'wow dude' and the guy says 'yeah that was awesome ki powers'. then all sorts of stories and legends arise. its nothing out of this world, some people are just very good with it.
_________________
"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana |
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on the post.
