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Taikudo-ka
Green Belt
Joined: 20 Mar 2002
Posts: 450
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2002 8:32 am Post subject: |
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We have junior ranks for all grades, not only black belts. Anyone under 16 has a junior grade. When you turn 16, you move to senior grades but drop a level. Not exactly sure how black belts are handled...if there is a junior one or not... I haven't seen any.
I would never turn up to another school or style as a student with my current rank showing... If I had the uniform, I'd be wearing a white belt until the sensei said otherwise. Particularly to get a rank in something different like kickboxing then show up to a karate dojo wearing the black belt when you've never even seen how that style fights... that's just sheer arrogance and assumption.
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BlueDragon1981
Red Belt
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 779
Location: USA
Styles: Goshin Jutsu Karate, Shotokan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 9:03 am Post subject: |
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I think that a black belt should be at least 15 or 16 at the earliest in age. That is only if they show dedication and a maturity level about their age. I also think that even if the person is not mature at whatever age they should not get a black belt. I believe a black belt should be a model citizen upon recieving a rank of that signifigance.  |
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kchenault
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 1050
Location: Ottawa, KS USA
Styles: TKD, little Hap Ki Do, Target Focus Training
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| AnonymousOne wrote: |
In our school Dan grades are based on an adults ability to perform certain things. Its physically impossible for children to be able to perform what is required in our school. Thats why the age limit of 18 is set for Shodan.
Children do not have a muscular strength to be able to perform the movements properly and also there is a contest component in gradings and a Shodan must be able to beat 3 1st Kyu Brown Belts (adults) in contest.
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Anonymous, would you say Ernie Reyes, Jr. was not worthy of his black belt at such a young age? I wouldn't. It all comes down to individual children. I know some adults who aren't worthy of their rank mentally.
Check out Ernie's style, technique, strength and list of wins in the adult division from his early career sometime. Very interesting...
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Ken Chenault
TFT - It does a body good! |
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hobbitbob
Purple Belt
Joined: 15 Jun 2002
Posts: 545
Location: Denver
Styles: 3d dan Shotokan, 2d dan Wado Ryu, 1st dan Taekwondo, 1st dan Aikido
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| kchenault wrote: |
| Check out Ernie's style, technique, strength and list of wins in the adult division from his early career sometime. Very interesting... |
I agree with you except for the tourna,emt bit. i don't see tournament wins as criteria for earning a black belt. Again, Ernie Reyes is an exception.
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There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm! |
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kchenault
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 1050
Location: Ottawa, KS USA
Styles: TKD, little Hap Ki Do, Target Focus Training
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 11:44 am Post subject: |
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I should clarify. Ernie achieved these wins as a black belt. But I also did say that it comes down to individual children.
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Ken Chenault
TFT - It does a body good! |
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Thai_Kick
Orange Belt
Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 207
Location: Ontario, Canada
Styles: Muay Thai, JKD and Kali
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with you except for the tourna,emt bit. i don't see tournament wins as criteria for earning a black belt. Again, Ernie Reyes is an exception. |
Tournament wins should be a criteria for earing a black belt IMO. Also if your a blue belt or brown belt and you beat a black belt in a tournament you should be awarded a black belt. You have proven you can be as good or better then that black belt by beating him, that should be enough to earn a black belt.
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Limits Are Not Accepted. They Are Elbowed, Kicked And Punched. |
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ZR440
Black Belt
Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 1597
Location: Michigan
Styles: Filipino
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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If I was ever lucky enough to beat my instructor (3rd degree KSW) in sparring, it would mean nothing. He'd mop the floor with me if it was a real brawl. Sparring and street fighting is two different things.
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It's happy hour somewhere in the world. |
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LeaF
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 1012
Location: North of the 49
Styles: Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, tournaments in my opinion should not be included in the critera for grading. For instance I personally am not a competitive person, I did not begin the martial arts to win a bunch of metals, I am here for personal improvement, does that mean I should never be allowed to get a black belt because I don't like to compete.
Black belts should not just be good fighters, that would be too easy. The mental aspects of the martial arts must not be forgotten. Just because I may be able to win a match of point sparring against a black belt means absolutly nothing. They are there because they earned their place and I could never accept a black belt just because I won a match. What about older people, should they never be black belts because they can't keep up to some of the younger praticitioneers of their art, of coarse not. If this was so the only people that would be black belts would be exceptionally
Just my two cents, have a good day Cheers 
_________________
Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo, 17 Years Old 1st kyu Brown Belt in in Goju Ryu Karate-do, & Shodan in Okinawan Kobudo
Given enough time, any man may master the physical. With enough knowledge, any man may become wise. It is the true warrior who can master both....and surpass the result.
I AM CANADIAN |
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Thai_Kick
Orange Belt
Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 207
Location: Ontario, Canada
Styles: Muay Thai, JKD and Kali
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| If this was so the only people that would be black belts would be exceptionally physically fit men and women between the ages of 18- 35..... |
Yes, and that's how it should be! Only in North America can you get a black belt and not know how to fight, defend yourself, or be in physically good condition. My uncle trained in Kyokushin Karate back home in Poland since he was 12, his 48 now. When he was going for his black belt the test consited of 3 phases.
Phase 1 - 200 squats, 200 push ups, 200 sit ups, 10 mile run, break 10 wooden boards and 5 slaps or concreat.
Phase 2 - All techniques from White to Brown belt.
Phase 3 - Kumite; spar 9 students full contact each for 10 minutes and finally spar his teacher for 10 minutes.
When my uncle completed all this he earned his Black belt. This is how it should be, a black belt should be earned by being physically fit, being able to fight, take punishment and knowing your techniques.
"Just because you know all you Kata's DOSEN'T MEAN YOU DESIVRE A BLACK BELT!" That's a statment that my uncle gave me.
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Limits Are Not Accepted. They Are Elbowed, Kicked And Punched. |
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LeaF
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 1012
Location: North of the 49
Styles: Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that being physically fit is an important aspect of being a black belt, but each individual is different and that must be accepted. You can not expect a 50 year old wo/man to be able to keep up to someone half their age. They should be pushed to the most extreme limit themselves as an individual can achieve. It appears your uncle went through quite the physical workout, but was the mental aspect lost. Did he not write a test or an essay, did he not have to know the history? In some cases the physical can be signifcantly less difficult then the mental.
You confuse me a little, at first you said.....
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| Also if your a blue belt or brown belt and you beat a black belt in a tournament you should be awarded a black belt. |
but then you quote your uncle by saying this...
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| "Just because you know all you Kata's DOSEN'T MEAN YOU DESIVRE A BLACK BELT!" |
Are you saying that kumite is more important then kata, if so I would have to disagree. Perhaps it is that way in Mauy Tai, I do not know. But in Karate you can not have one without the other. There must be a balance of mind body and soul. If one focuses to much on one aspect and ignores the other two you will never be the best you can be..... So in my opinion,
Just because you can beat a black belt in a tounament doesn't mean you deserve a black belt!
cheers
_________________
Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo, 17 Years Old 1st kyu Brown Belt in in Goju Ryu Karate-do, & Shodan in Okinawan Kobudo
Given enough time, any man may master the physical. With enough knowledge, any man may become wise. It is the true warrior who can master both....and surpass the result.
I AM CANADIAN |
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on the post.
