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ChangWuJi
Orange Belt
Joined: 23 Jul 2001
Posts: 144
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 Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| What the Gracies have done was take away most if not all of the other tributes of Japanese Jiu Jitsu and concentrate on ground fighting. Look at the way they strike, I mean they can't punch for shi@. Japanese Jiu Jitsu has everything bjj has plus alot more, and is alot more well rounded art. And Japanese Jiu Jitsu stems from Chinese martial arts, and Chi'n Na which is joint locks. According to Robert W. Smith the Chinese only revealed the most primitive techniques. |
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Angus
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1064
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Heh, now Changwuji joins the list of people who have no idea what they are talking about.
Has everyone forgotten that Rickson Gracie is the champion of the Gracie family? Has everyone forgotten that Helio was a tiny little dude who had been sickly all of his life? (or are we talking about some Helio junior or something?).
Shaolin, u don't know what you're on about IN GENERAL... This is the last time i'm gonna say this stuff, cos i'm sick of typing it. TOO MANY PEOPLE TAKE THINGS ON FACE VALUE. Do BJJ with a mind to actually properly learn the techniques and u will find that the principles are the same when u r standing up. Just the other night i was doing some BJJ stuff with some guys at Karate (i was working with a BJJ instructor) and we were doing standup stuff.
What the Gracies did was take out all the USELESS stuff that the japanese had in their Jiu Jitsu system and concentrated on the more effective stuff, BOTH FOR SPORT AND SELF DEFENSE. I've never done the Gracie style, i must admit, i've done the Machado BJJ. The Machado brothers are still pretty much the same as the Gracies anyway.
I'm not gonna argue the point anymore, i'm just gonna laugh at you. Like this 
Angus
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Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear. |
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Shaolin
Orange Belt
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 123
Location: NYC Metro Area
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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On 2002-02-28 16:22, Angus wrote:
Heh, now Changwuji joins the list of people who have no idea what they are talking about.
Has everyone forgotten that Rickson Gracie is the champion of the Gracie family? Has everyone forgotten that Helio was a tiny little dude who had been sickly all of his life? (or are we talking about some Helio junior or something?).
Shaolin, u don't know what you're on about IN GENERAL... This is the last time i'm gonna say this stuff, cos i'm sick of typing it. TOO MANY PEOPLE TAKE THINGS ON FACE VALUE. Do BJJ with a mind to actually properly learn the techniques and u will find that the principles are the same when u r standing up. Just the other night i was doing some BJJ stuff with some guys at Karate (i was working with a BJJ instructor) and we were doing standup stuff.
What the Gracies did was take out all the USELESS stuff that the japanese had in their Jiu Jitsu system and concentrated on the more effective stuff, BOTH FOR SPORT AND SELF DEFENSE. I've never done the Gracie style, i must admit, i've done the Machado BJJ. The Machado brothers are still pretty much the same as the Gracies anyway.
I'm not gonna argue the point anymore, i'm just gonna laugh at you. Like this
Angus
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It's quite clear from your childish remarks that you don't know didly about much of anything in the arts or are simply incapable of articulating it.
The BJJ people don't have squat in a standup fight. They have no idea how to control the Centerline and have no worthy entry moves, save the run, duck and grab - nor do they have any worthy striking moves as was stated above. At that range a good Wing Chun man would decimate them much like in the video I posted.
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Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace: Moy Yat Sifu |
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Angus
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1064
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Angus  
_________________
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear. |
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Shaolin
Orange Belt
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 123
Location: NYC Metro Area
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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On 2002-02-28 09:12, Aikidoka wrote:
aikido evolved as I said, from Daito Ryu aikijujitsu. This style was essentially an extension of sword techniques into unarmed hand-to-hand techniques, hence such attacks as cutting with the hand blade (such as shomen-uchi, yokomen-uchi and gyakuyokomen-uchi).
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Thanks for the responses Aikidoka! I was wondering: Is Daito Ryu Aikijujitsu still around in its pure form today? One of this things I like about Aikido is that - as far I as I understand it - operates on principles, which is something I can relate to having studied Wing Chun. The Aikidoka I have heard about related that they have found it possible to apply Aikido concepts in a multitude of combat situations - I think this is an important tool that any good art should offer its practitioners. Would you say that Daito Ryu Aikijujitsu, if it's still around, offers this flexibility and the fluidity found in Aikido?
BTW here a link to the school I am considering going to. One of the senior teachers there apparently studied with Morihei Ueshiba I get the sense the school is really good, what say you?
http://www.nyaikikai.com/
Thanks,
Jim
[ This Message was edited by: Shaolin on 2002-02-28 17:09 ] |
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Aikidoka
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2001
Posts: 132
Location: York, UK
Styles: Tomiki Aikido
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| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2002 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Daito Ryu is still around, but is very hard to track down. Generic aikijujitsu clubs are easier to find and offer a well rounded approach to the martial arts. They teach all the techniques in aikido but more combat orientated, as well as striking and ground-grappling techniques. As my sensei says, aikijujitsu is just aikido with the corners cut off ie. the techniques are the same except sharper and more dangerous.
The New York Aikikai look like a descent bunch, and the Aikikai in general are a trustworthy organisation who teach aikido in its 'purest form'. I think you should go for it. Good luck. |
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three60roundhouse
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 891
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| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2002 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| Angus, "GJJ" is what some people use instead of "BJJ" GJJ=Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. You're not always right, you know. |
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Hapkidodude
Yellow Belt
Joined: 21 Aug 2001
Posts: 72
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2002 9:58 am Post subject: |
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In addition to Aikido, Hapkido also spawned from the same Daito Ryu Aiki Ju Jitsu. There are many similarities and many differences. Hapkido has offence as well as the joint lock throw techniques. Also the way I have trained it, we take it a step farther and use BJJ ground techniques after the throw/takedown. You may not plan to take someone to the ground, but they may plan to take you to the ground. It does'nt hurt to know a little ground fighting.
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Brett
The Hand is quicker than the eye! |
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YODA
Black Belt
Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Posts: 1033
Location: England (int'north west)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2002 11:19 am Post subject: |
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After reading this thread & it's obviously deluded opinion of how effective & well trained BJJ/GJJ person is at taking down, for example, a Wing Chun man - there's only one thing I can add really .....
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YODA
2nd Degree Black Belt : Doce Pares Eskrima
Instructor : JKD Concepts
http://www.jkdc.co.uk / http://www.docepares.co.uk
[ This Message was edited by: YODA on 2002-03-02 12:21 ] |
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spinninggumby
Purple Belt
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Posts: 519
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2002 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Interesting side note and kind of off subject. I know this girl from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil and I was asking her about the Gracies and she said 'yes, they are fighters who are always known for causing trouble in places here in public places. they think they can do this just because they are good at fighting'.
Hmmm. Whether this is true or not i don't know. Competent or not I have a hard time mustering up any type of respect for these guys if they are just a bunch of walking bloated egos.
There is nothing more pathetic than a man who feels the constant need to promote himself. Except for maybe a bunch of men.
Usually the ones that exhibit hostile jealousy when at a disadvantage are the same ones that will brag or boast when given or put in a place of advantage. b/c both stem out of deep insecurity. 
As for bjj in general, I would assume that they are unmatched in terms of pure groundfighting but I am not sure about overall street application (What if you have like ten people jumping on top of you at the same time?). As far as I can tell, the 'new' UFC is just a bunch of f**ked up politics that is pretty soon just going to turn into WWF. I mentioned this before but during times of extreme boredom I have put UFC videos into slow motion and once in a while you get this guy who is not even punching the face he is just faking it and going off to the side in a vigorous motion. *Sigh* I guess everything will lose its tradition for the sake of 'entertainment' someday. Loss of tradition is just fine as long as it is for the right reasons.
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'Conviction is a luxury for those on the sidelines'
William Parcher, 'A BEAUTIFUL MIND' |
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on the post.
