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Shaolin
Orange Belt
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 123
Location: NYC Metro Area
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 Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2002 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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how effective & well trained BJJ/GJJ person is at taking down, for example, a Wing Chun man - there's only one thing I can add
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http://www.fightauthority.com/movies/accion2.wmv
Please...now I can't stop laughing... 
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Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher, dear friend, dear brother, and dear father: Moy Yat Sifu
[ This Message was edited by: Shaolin on 2002-03-02 21:38 ] |
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Joecooke007
Brown Belt
Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2002 5:07 am Post subject: |
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Aikido does have strikes through. The whole art is based on fluidity and the balance of nature. All of the moves that you see will be very fluid. None of this jerking about. 
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Boards don't hit back.
-Bruce Lee |
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YODA
Black Belt
Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Posts: 1033
Location: England (int'north west)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2002 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Shaolin - A grappler wearing a Wing Chun uniform?
That's a Wing Chun guy vs. another Wing Chun guy trying to be a grappler. That's not what I was talking about.
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YODA
2nd Degree Black Belt : Doce Pares Eskrima www.docepares.co.uk
Qualified Instructor : JKD Concepts www.jkdc.co.uk
Qualified Fitness Instructor (Weights, CV, Circuit, Kinesiology) |
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Shaolin
Orange Belt
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 123
Location: NYC Metro Area
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2002 8:02 am Post subject: |
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On 2002-03-03 06:30, YODA wrote:
Shaolin - A grappler wearing a Wing Chun uniform?
That's a Wing Chun guy vs. another Wing Chun guy trying to be a grappler. That's not what I was talking about.
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Understood. I was simply making the point that using Wing Chun it is quite possible to aviod being taken to the ground and 'control' one's opponent with continous Centerline Attack and Facing. This is, after all, what Wing Chun is all about and makes up the basis for all real Wing Chun training. In order to circumvent this strategy the enemy must either go around the Centerline or through it, and believe it or not neither is all that easy to do since this represents the most basic elements of what we train.
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Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher, dear friend, dear brother, and dear father: Moy Yat Sifu
[ This Message was edited by: Shaolin on 2002-03-03 09:03 ] |
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YODA
Black Belt
Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Posts: 1033
Location: England (int'north west)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2002 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Ok - Now that I can agree with 
Wing Chun is a great art - and is the foundation on which much of my training is built - I just have a problem when people say ANY art has all the answers.
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YODA
2nd Degree Black Belt : Doce Pares Eskrima www.docepares.co.uk
Qualified Instructor : JKD Concepts www.jkdc.co.uk
Qualified Fitness Instructor (Weights, CV, Circuit, Kinesiology) |
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thaiboxerken
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 1270
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2002 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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I've taken down plenty of Wing Chun guys... that was the poorest shoot i've ever seen from a grappler, he was finished as soon as he decided to grapple. I do know some Wing Chun guys that are hard to take down, but for some reason, they train in BJJ or wrestling as well.. hmmm. I like Wing Chun, don't get me wrong, but I don't think that the art alone will save a person from being taken down from a good grappler.
As far as Aikido, every training session I've seen (on TV and in person) has been defending against totally unrealistic attacks, I mean who the heck does a lunging karate-chop these days? Do people really run across a room and lunge at people in fights? I don't think I've ever seen Aikido deal with a good jab or a nice Thai-style kick, do they train against these things? And if so.. would that mean they had some exposure to the attacks and now train how to do it a bit now?
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Just kick 'em, they'll understand.- Me
Apprentice Instructor under Guro Inosanto in Jun Fan Gung Fu and Filipinno Martial arts.
Certified Instructor of Frank Cucci's Linxx system of martial arts. |
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Aikidoka
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2001
Posts: 132
Location: York, UK
Styles: Tomiki Aikido
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:47 am Post subject: |
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For most people who practise aikido, self defense is not their main priority, so they don't worry that people don't attack with a "lunging karate-chop" anymore.
Some schools have introduced training against realistic attacks exactly because they have been exposed to them in open competitions, and were unprepared for the low levels of commitment when compared to stylised traditional attacks.
Aikido, in my experience at least, only works in a realistic encounter when it is absolutely perfect; something which takes years of training or a one-off fluke to achieve. The highest level practitioners can normally cope with most things mainly because they have near-perfect timing and can avoid attacks lightning fast. At this level, it no longer matters how an opponent attacks.
The introduction of sport aikido, fighting against a knife-weilding opponent who is trying not to be thrown and knows all the tricks, has offered an new opportunity to train against an attacker who doesn't offer himself for the throw. |
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yoriki816
Yellow Belt
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 42
Location: Southern U.S.
Styles: Shodan Yoseikan Aikido, Shodan Goshin Jujitsu
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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I find it somewhat disappointing that what started as a sincere question about the practical application of aikido technique and the realistic or unrealistic nature of the offensive skills of the art has turned into something as juvenile as whether or not the Gracie family is really bunch of overblown egomaniacs who stage their own matches. We are martial artists here, or at least that's what I would like to believe. Who's style kicks who's style's butt is really irrelevant and contrary to the philosphy and teachings of the masters who founded the arts we all study. I understand that many practicioners are very concerned about whether or not what they practice has real street value, and that is a very understandable concern. But martial arts are not about violence for violence's sake let alone name calling.
Every style has strengths as well as weaknesses. There is no perfect style or ultimate method of self defense. Each style has a blindspot, the true pioneers in martial arts realized that and took the approach that to truly be effective you have to eliminate questions of which large group pf techniques and methodologies works best and stick to which collection of specific principles and techniques work best for you as an individual. There is value in the traditional martial arts, I study them wholeheartedly but I also understand that I can learn from those arts that are strong where I am a weak. In being open minded and looking for the value in what I do not understand or feel comfortable with I can allow myself to become a better student, instructor, and person.
And that's my two cents
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Matt Gilliard
Shodan- Yoseikan Aikido
Shodan- Goshin Jujitsu |
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on the post.
