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NewEnglands_KyoSa
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 907
Location: New England
Styles: Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do , Chinese Kempo
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 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: Any Okinawan Artists... |
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now, i thought i heard this somewhere and was curious. is it true that some okinawan arts and maybe i've heard of this in uechi ryu, is it true that up to 5th dan they wear a plain black belt and when they put stripes on it it means they are a fifth plus however many stripes they have? because i have been many places and seen older people with very whitened black belts that have no stripes, and then i have seen other with stripes on them, i just want to get my ranks right when i see these people so i dont look stupid! 
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"Smile. Show everyone that today you're stronger than you were yesterday." |
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Zanshin
Purple Belt
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 530
Styles: Wado Ryu Karate, Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu, Ono-Ha Itto-Ryu Kenjutsu
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Any Okinawan Artists... |
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| NewEnglands_KyoSa wrote: |
| now, i thought i heard this somewhere and was curious. is it true that some okinawan arts and maybe i've heard of this in uechi ryu, is it true that up to 5th dan they wear a plain black belt and when they put stripes on it it means they are a fifth plus however many stripes they have? because i have been many places and seen older people with very whitened black belts that have no stripes, and then i have seen other with stripes on them, i just want to get my ranks right when i see these people so i dont look stupid! |
Although I don’t study an Okinawan art, I think I am right in saying that traditionally, there was no belt system, (it was introduced by Judo's Kano sensei in the early twentieth century in mainland Japan). So therefore they probably just wore an "obi" to keep their trousers up. 
I think that the stripes on the belt are more of a western thing. "My amps better than yours cause it goes up to 11" really.
It doesn't mean anything. Have a look at the person wearing the belt to see how good they are.
None of the top “JKF” (Japan Karate Federation) instructors I train with wear anything else but plain black belts up to and including 10th dan.
The “whitened” belts you refer to are supposed to be “symbolic”. They are a sign that a student at black belt has trained for so long, that that they have come full circle and their understanding of the art is so great that it can be done without conscious thought, a state of “Mushin” or mind of no mind. The white belt implies a return to purity.
An easier way to do this is to buy a silk black belt, wear it for six months until it goes white and bingo – instant master.
_________________
"The difference between the possible and impossible is one's will"
"saya no uchi de katsu" - Victory in the scabbbard of the sword. (One must obtain victory while the sword is undrawn).
www.art-of-budo.com |
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harleyt26
Orange Belt
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 123
Location: Summerfield,Florida U.S.A.
Styles: Ryu Kyu Kobudo,Shito Ryu,Shorin Ryu
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone is different.My Okinawan sensei a ninth dan wears a black belt but it is kept fresh and new looking he told me that you should consider first impressions and that a worn tattered belt would not make a good first impression .Or a worn out gi.If someone takes your picture or a video that worn out look will be around forever.
I have a favorite old belt that I wear for kihons and regular training but if I am going out of my dojo I wear one of several nice ones I keep for first impressions.I do not wear stripes but my nice belts have my name embroidered on them.
Tom Hodges
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migi kamae,migi bo kihon ichi |
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NewEnglands_KyoSa
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 907
Location: New England
Styles: Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do , Chinese Kempo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Any Okinawan Artists... |
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| Zanshin wrote: |
| NewEnglands_KyoSa wrote: |
| now, i thought i heard this somewhere and was curious. is it true that some okinawan arts and maybe i've heard of this in uechi ryu, is it true that up to 5th dan they wear a plain black belt and when they put stripes on it it means they are a fifth plus however many stripes they have? because i have been many places and seen older people with very whitened black belts that have no stripes, and then i have seen other with stripes on them, i just want to get my ranks right when i see these people so i dont look stupid! |
Although I don’t study an Okinawan art, I think I am right in saying that traditionally, there was no belt system, (it was introduced by Judo's Kano sensei in the early twentieth century in mainland Japan). So therefore they probably just wore an "obi" to keep their trousers up.
I think that the stripes on the belt are more of a western thing. "My amps better than yours cause it goes up to 11" really.
It doesn't mean anything. Have a look at the person wearing the belt to see how good they are.
None of the top “JKF” (Japan Karate Federation) instructors I train with wear anything else but plain black belts up to and including 10th dan.
The “whitened” belts you refer to are supposed to be “symbolic”. They are a sign that a student at black belt has trained for so long, that that they have come full circle and their understanding of the art is so great that it can be done without conscious thought, a state of “Mushin” or mind of no mind. The white belt implies a return to purity.
An easier way to do this is to buy a silk black belt, wear it for six months until it goes white and bingo – instant master. |
yes, i understand this, and the history. and iam a full believe in the coming full circle with the whitening of the belt theory, and upset at the same time that, that seems to be the new fad is to fade your belts, but anyway, thats another rant. i just want to know if someone actually told me this theory or i dreamed it up, cuz im sure that somebody told me something like this, so im hoping its existent somewhere and im not just crazy. 
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"Smile. Show everyone that today you're stronger than you were yesterday." |
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NinTai
Yellow Belt
Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 98
Styles: Shorin-Ryu Shorinkan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
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I have not seen this used outside of Uechi Ryu.
My understanding is that it progresses like this:
Shodan - Godan - Plain belt
Rokudan - One Gold Stripe
Nanadan - Hachidan - Two Stripes
Kudan - Three Stripes
Judan - ???
_________________
Too early in the morning? Get up and train.
Cold and wet outside? Go train.
Tired? Weary of the whole journey and longing just for a moment to stop and rest? Train. ~ Dave Lowry
Why do we fall, sir? So that we may learn how to pick ourselves back up. ~ Alfred Pennyworth |
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NewEnglands_KyoSa
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 907
Location: New England
Styles: Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do , Chinese Kempo
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| NinTai wrote: |
I have not seen this used outside of Uechi Ryu.
My understanding is that it progresses like this:
Shodan - Godan - Plain belt
Rokudan - One Gold Stripe
Nanadan - Hachidan - Two Stripes
Kudan - Three Stripes
Judan - ??? |
so it is a uechi ryu thing! thanks for clearing that up, i appreciate it!
_________________
"Smile. Show everyone that today you're stronger than you were yesterday." |
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Holland
Blue Belt
Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 287
Location: wilmington, nc
Styles: Isshinryu, Okinawan Kobudo
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Actually I have seen it used in Shorin Ryu as well. I have seen Okinawans use it as well as americans so I would not necessarily attribute it to the west.
Of course many use the red and white belt at 6th, and go to all red at 9th. But I have seen both ways. |
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ShoriKid
Orange Belt
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 157
Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling(submission, Greco-Roman)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if it's an Okinawan thing or not. But, those who I've met that train in Okinawan styles seemed to be less about "blocks" and stripes of rank than some other systems.
My Shorin Ryu instructor had a nice, neat belt with a few stripes on it for going out in public. He had the older, more beat up belt with no stripes for every day class.
The sad thing about the ratty, faded belt, is that you can order them now. They are supposed to be there when you've spent so much time training as a black belt, that they are worn out and your headed back toward the white belt. You've suffered and trained enough to start completing that circle.
Now, you get it all mail order for $19.95.
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"No one ever drowned in sweat"-Marine maxum |
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NinTai
Yellow Belt
Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 98
Styles: Shorin-Ryu Shorinkan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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If you look around i think its a cultural thing.
Go into any "hip" cloathing store and you can buy
a designer pair of ratty, stained and torn jeans.
Usualy for a premium.
_________________
Too early in the morning? Get up and train.
Cold and wet outside? Go train.
Tired? Weary of the whole journey and longing just for a moment to stop and rest? Train. ~ Dave Lowry
Why do we fall, sir? So that we may learn how to pick ourselves back up. ~ Alfred Pennyworth |
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ShoriKid
Orange Belt
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 157
Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling(submission, Greco-Roman)
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Those would be the same kind of jeans my mother used to threaten me with death over wearing into public?
Fits right into the instant gratification slant going around. Get it easy, look hip and cool. Now those ragged and ratty jeans, just too dang drafty for me.
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"No one ever drowned in sweat"-Marine maxum |
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on the post.
