Ballet turnout of the hips for martial artists?

Alan Armstrong · Black Belt

This the "ballet turnout" of the hips of any use to martial artists?

I believe the answer to this question is a big yes.

Body mechanics is reliant on the turnout of the hips for side on kicking techniques such as the round kick, side kick and hook kick.

The axe kick and front kick can also benefit from the ballet turnout of the hips.

Could rightly be asking, what has ballet have to do with martial art kicking.

There are many reasons to bring up this topic, so to start things off in no particular order.

Have you noticed that ballet dancers walk differently than martial artists?

Ballet dancers are easy to pick out when walking about in public due to walking similar to a duck. This observation is not in any way, shape or form intended to be an insult to ballet dancers, as this to them is common knowledge.

The reason ballet dancers walk similar to a duck is due to years of ballet conditioning to turn the hips outwards.

This turnout of the hips for ballet dancers is due to performing on a stage. As the audience is viewing them perform in a parallel position.

There is also a body mechanic reason, that not only adds to the aesthetic (gracefulness) but also functionality (balance)

Without the proper turnout of the hips a ballet dancer will not be able to perform at the high standard that this art demands.

Martial artists don't train like ballet dancers do, neither should they. But there is an important ingredient that martial artists should contemplate on adopting for practical reasons.

The reason is, that adopting the turnout hip method when conditioning for kicking, will save on martial artists damaging their knees and also will help deliver more powerful kicks.

Martial artists, many there of, don't turnout the hips while kicking, so to compensate for this, the knee of the supporting leg twists.

Yes we are taught to keep the knees over the toes while practicing katas (while in a stance) but when kicking? Not near as often!

There is alot that can be said on this topic and I am hoping that many of you will participate in it.

Turnout conditioning isn't none existing for martial artists, just under emphasized.

Doing hip turnout training at the bar as ballet dancers do isn't the answer, for martial artists, due to maybe the feet are twisting out properly but the hips are not moving whatsoever, therefore the knees are twisting in a damaging manner. This is why knees are visible when training, so corrections can be easily spotted and corrected.

Floor exercises that start from the knee up to the hips is preferable. While laying on one's back while the soles of the feet touch each other, in a butterfly position and a stretching partner puts a downwards pressure just above the knees.

Also while laying on one's front in the frog position and once again a stretching partner puts steady downward pressure on the gluts.

These are just a few ways of adding to turnout flexibility, go slow, be warmed up first, don't rush your stretch and do it often.

sensei8 · KF Sensei

Hips are hips!! Usage of the hips will vary per its use!! Hips drive the power apex, and without the proper use of the hips, the difference between a push VS a hit are day and night!!

Without being way to detailed in my explanation, the hips turn, it's impossible to do anything static with hips effectively. Hip turnout is the beginning and the end of any technique. Without hip turnout, the rigidness steals the power apex curve out of any technique, and almost immediate. Therefore, the fights over before it even began!!

One has to understand hip usage when it comes to the MA, and if not, then carry with you some type of an equalizer, whatever that might be.

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**Proof is on the floor!!!

Alan Armstrong · Black Belt

DWx · Black Belt

In personal experience I actually find that students need to learn to rotate inwards from the hip joint as outwards comes more naturally.

For example, proper side kick foot position needs the heel higher than the toes but a lot of students, especially beginners, end up kicking toes up and so connect with the sole or flat of the foot rather than blade of the foot. The same for roundhouses; toes should end up below the hip if the hips are rotated and engaged properly, but you find those with limited flexibility connecting with the side of the foot like a crescent kick rather than the ball of the foot.

Myself, I really struggle with this and have naturally toed out all of my life (external tibial torsion). External and internal tibial torsion can have a knock on effect on hip alignment, resulting in pelvic tilt, spinal misalignment and affect overall posture.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius

Alan Armstrong · Black Belt

I really don't want to try and sound like a know it all. I'm just a life time martial art student.

So whoever reads my suggestions, knows that I'm not a doctor or therapist, just having a very keen interest in martial arts, that likes to share and help others.

Back on track with hip turnouts and kicking.

There are significant differences with kicking styles, from: karate, gung fu, TKD and so on...
what they all have in common is the hips need to be conditioned and engaged in kicks.

Ballet is not based on natural movement and conditioning for this type of dance demands an unnatural turnout of the hips.

At a young age, girls in particular are subjected to exercises that change hips to turnout permanently. Exercises for ballet dancers is also reshaping hips for a lifetime.

Just as foot binding (small feet) was considered beautiful (In China) so is hip turnout, that adds exceptional beauty (In France) to dancers movements. As high heel shoes slenders out legs and creates a hip movement (In the USA) that looks and feels seductive.

Men being built differently in many ways than women, including the hips, due to child birth and carrying a baby for 9 months as men, do not need this type of hip design.

Also men are at another disadvantage than women because hips are not generally associated to male sports or movements.

Men are usually limited to martial arts movements to improve flexibility, that are ususlly muscle stretching movements, whereas women have reached closer to the bone with stretching ligaments at an early age.

My guess is, that men that are flexible as adults have had female influences (at a young age) such as sisters or relatives that were stretching for ballet or cheerleaders, especially today with Pilates and Yoga not forgetting, pole dancing.

Male influences for flexibility reasons today, could come from gymnastics, break dancing and hip hop movements that are socially acceptable.

The big question for male and female martial artists, is it possible to reshape hips to do a reasonable turnout in the later stages of life?

My answer is, depending on the person or individual as we are all different.

I believe if a person has the determination and conviction that it is possible, to developed a reasonable improvement in their turnout to improve their kicking abilities, then the answer is yes.

Improving hip turnout for martial art porpoises alone, should also consider improving one's quality of life also. As maintaining or improving flexibility is an intelligent move in make, while heading towards senior years.

If a person has no previous hip problem issues, then turning them out should not be a problem. Consulting with a doctor if there has been hip issues in the past is advisable.

The good news is, there is no need for setting a specific time to practice as any time is a good time.

Doesn't cost any money just your time.

Gradually building up your range of motion in the hips will increase your martial art confidence.

Improved flexibility will enhance your kicks and forms.

Balance, strength and coordination will improve due to focusing on the hip fulcrums.

There are no negative side effects to improving hip turnouts, only that the knees need to be kept from twisting and turning during conditioning the hips.

A personal favorite of mine is straddling on gymnasts parallel bars, with my legs dangling over each bar and holding on with my hands, rocking gently forwards and backwards, feeling the strech in the gluts and groin area.

Listen to everyone's advice on achieving hip turnouts with exercises and then pick and choose which ones suits you best.

Improving hip turnout isn't going to happen over night, yet over time it will, combined with martial art body mechanics, kicks will start to become easier and more responsive, that might feel astonishing to you at the beginning.

There are food supplements supposedly designed for improving joints and ligaments, I personally take them, but know that they are not scientifically proven to work.

What ever you want in life and it is a reasonable request, chances are you will succeed in getting it!

Never give up trying, this is the secret to successful results.

DWx · Black Belt

Alan, can you give an example where hip turnout is beneficial to a movement?

In my style hip turn in seems to be more important in all the examples of kicks and stances that I can think of.

As I said above, tibial torsion and femoral torsion are normally things that need to be corrected in posture, and aren't always seen as a good thing.

http://www.orthoseek.com/articles/femtorsion.html
https://www.drgreene.com/articles/tibial-torsion/
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius

Alan Armstrong · Black Belt

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