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UseoForce
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 938
Styles: Combat Hapkido, MMA/BJJ, Various others
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 Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ravenzoom wrote: |
Doublelegtakedown wrote:
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BJJ + Wrestling= even more crazy grappler
BJJ for the excellant groundwork and Wrestling for the awesome takedowns and throws! |
You believe wrestling is superior to Judo? |
Wrestling is great for no-gi. Judo is better for gi. There is also plenty of overlap between techniques (hip throws, fireman's carry, etc)
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Doublelegtakedown
Yellow Belt
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 98
Location: NJ
Styles: Folkstyle,Greco-Roman, and free style wrestling and soon to be BJJ!
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| ravenzoom wrote: |
Doublelegtakedown wrote:
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BJJ + Wrestling= even more crazy grappler
BJJ for the excellant groundwork and Wrestling for the awesome takedowns and throws! |
You believe wrestling is superior to Judo? |
Yes don't you.........
I believe it is far superior in takedowns and in freestyle and greco-roman wrestling a lot of it is all upper body throws which is pretty much no gi throws!
Judo is superior then wrestling on the ground but not on the feet! |
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elbows_and_knees
Black Belt
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1795
Styles: thai boxing, grappling
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| neither is superior. They are what they are. |
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marie curie
KF Sempai
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 1021
Location: PA, USA
Styles: Ko Sutemi Seiei Kan Karate, Kajukenbo, Kodokan Judo, Gracie Barra Jiu-Jitsu, Olympic Tae Kwon Doe
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: |
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I think they mean in grappling competition...
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elbows_and_knees
Black Belt
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1795
Styles: thai boxing, grappling
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| As do I. I train with a couple of judoka who compete nationally. One of them was world ranked at one time. They tool many wrestlers, both standing and on the ground. |
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Whitefeather
Blue Belt
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 289
Location: Pacific Northwest
Styles: Shudokan Karatedo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I would agree with Sohan:
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If you just want to grapple, fine, but it may not be enough for street defense.
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Grappling/BJJ/Judo is all awesome (and I wish that there was a good judo school around where I am, I would love to try it sometime), but if you are looking for self-defense skills, you should look past just grappling. Even though it will definately help you on the street, there are situations where you would be vastly better off if you had some experience in a fighting art, such as Karate, Muay Thai, Kung-Fu, etcetera. Preferably Karate  .
David
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"Fight I, not as one that beateth the air" |
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TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Whitefeather wrote: |
I would agree with Sohan:
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If you just want to grapple, fine, but it may not be enough for street defense.
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Grappling/BJJ/Judo is all awesome (and I wish that there was a good judo school around where I am, I would love to try it sometime), but if you are looking for self-defense skills, you should look past just grappling. Even though it will definately help you on the street, there are situations where you would be vastly better off if you had some experience in a fighting art, such as Karate, Muay Thai, Kung-Fu, etcetera. Preferably Karate .
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There are proabably just as many situations where you would be vastly better off with grappling experience..like if you got tackled and 99% of your karate/muay thai whatever didint work anymore since your on your back.
The obvious answer is you need both..there are times and situations where each are useful and good to know. |
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Sohan
Black Belt
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 1986
Location: Atlanta
Styles: Shorin Ryu Karate-Do, Muay Thai, Shudokan Karate-Do, Boxing, BJJ, Hung Gar Gung Fu
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| TJS wrote: |
| Whitefeather wrote: |
I would agree with Sohan:
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If you just want to grapple, fine, but it may not be enough for street defense.
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Grappling/BJJ/Judo is all awesome (and I wish that there was a good judo school around where I am, I would love to try it sometime), but if you are looking for self-defense skills, you should look past just grappling. Even though it will definately help you on the street, there are situations where you would be vastly better off if you had some experience in a fighting art, such as Karate, Muay Thai, Kung-Fu, etcetera. Preferably Karate .
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There are proabably just as many situations where you would be vastly better off with grappling experience..like if you got tackled and 99% of your karate/muay thai whatever didint work anymore since your on your back.
The obvious answer is you need both..there are times and situations where each are useful and good to know. |
Right. Though I certainly didn't imply that one shouldn't study grappling nor that one is better off without grappling experience. I am saying that to be a complete self defense artist, you need to do more than just study grappling, just like nobody should count on just being a striker/kicker alone.
I agree completely with you that both are essential. However, I would hardly say that I would find myself in a situation against grapplers where 99% of my striking skills wouldn't work. Skilled MT elbows, knees and fists can and have been quite punishing against grapplers. Hard to go for that arm bar when one is getting their nose and forehead beaten into a pulp.
Respectfully,
Sohan
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"If I cannot become one of extraordinary accomplishment, I will not walk the earth." Zen Master Nakahara Nantenbo
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elbows_and_knees
Black Belt
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1795
Styles: thai boxing, grappling
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| Whitefeather wrote: |
I would agree with Sohan:
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If you just want to grapple, fine, but it may not be enough for street defense.
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Grappling/BJJ/Judo is all awesome (and I wish that there was a good judo school around where I am, I would love to try it sometime), but if you are looking for self-defense skills, you should look past just grappling. Even though it will definately help you on the street, there are situations where you would be vastly better off if you had some experience in a fighting art, such as Karate, Muay Thai, Kung-Fu, etcetera. Preferably Karate .
David |
thinking about it, one of the few situations I can think of where grappling is not advised is multiple attackers, or if the guy is huge and your grappling isn't that good.
against weapons - I'd rather grapple
one guy my size - I'd rather grapple
against a better striker than me - I'd rather grapple
And I'm primarily a striker... |
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UseoForce
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 938
Styles: Combat Hapkido, MMA/BJJ, Various others
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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IMO, grappling is a necessary skill agianst multiple opponents. First of all, grappling training can help prevent you from being taken down. Second, if you can restrain one opponent with grappling skills, he can be used as a barrier or just quickly put out of comission. Except for a clean right to the jaw (which may or may not be accpetable depending on the circumstances) there's nothing like a good throw to buy you a little time.
Having said that, going to the ground against multiples is really bad.
Furthermore, I'd probably strike until my opponents closed with me and forced me to grapple. But as we see in MMA, it is very hard to avoid a clinch, so grappling skills are a must.
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on the post.
