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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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 Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:17 am Post subject: Black belt in both Shotokan and Tang Soo Do? |
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Never quite understood the point of holding black belts in a korean version of the other art. The katas in TSD are Shotokan (except for a few kung fu ones).
What exactly does the other art add to ones experience?
I know actor Michael Jai White is a black belt in both. |
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ashworth
Brown Belt
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 707
Location: UK
Styles: Shotokan, IJR Karate, Iaido, Kobudo
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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I thought Michael Jai White had his Black belt in kyukoshin rather than shotokan?
Will be interested in the replies to this as I have recently gained a student that started in shotokan, got to 2nd Dan then went onto Yong gi do, another Korean Style with similar kata and now they have joined me and going back to the shotokan way of doing things...
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Ashley Aldworth
Train together, Learn together, Succeed together... |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say they're the same. Shotokan would be more like the parent style as Tang Soo Do does have other influences and further developed on its own in Korea.
You'll find the kata in Shotokan and Tang Soo Do have their own unique flavour to them.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ashworth wrote: |
I thought Michael Jai White had his Black belt in kyukoshin rather than shotokan?
Will be interested in the replies to this as I have recently gained a student that started in shotokan, got to 2nd Dan then went onto Yong gi do, another Korean Style with similar kata and now they have joined me and going back to the shotokan way of doing things... |
Here Michael states his black belts:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jZcV5QBfpdQ |
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
I wouldn't say they're the same. Shotokan would be more like the parent style as Tang Soo Do does have other influences and further developed on its own in Korea.
You'll find the kata in Shotokan and Tang Soo Do have their own unique flavour to them. |
The only difference I know of is greater hip rotation in the korean version of mawashi geri, at the cost of speed. This was also carried over to traditional TaeKwonDo, since TSD instructors were recruited to pass on their knowledge to the first generation TKD students |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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There's my thing about Michael Jai White...
That video said he holds black belts in 7 different arts. I thought it was 8. What's his highest rank? Does he get a 1st or 2nd dan and then move on?
My real question is what is the depth of his knowledge of any of them? It appears on the surface to be more collecting black belts than actually advancing further. I understand he's an actor and needs to move different ways for different roles. I get curiosity of different arts and ways they do things. I know he's quite talented, and I'm not trying to take that away by any means, but where's the depth?
Wesley Snipes allegedly has a 5th dan in Shotokan karate. Does White have an advanced dan rank in any of those 7 arts? Maybe it's wrong, but I have more respect for a high rank in one art (so long as it's actually earned) than 1st or 2nd dan in 7 or 8 different arts. |
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| JR 137 wrote: |
There's my thing about Michael Jai White...
That video said he holds black belts in 7 different arts. I thought it was 8. What's his highest rank? Does he get a 1st or 2nd dan and then move on?
My real question is what is the depth of his knowledge of any of them? It appears on the surface to be more collecting black belts than actually advancing further. I understand he's an actor and needs to move different ways for different roles. I get curiosity of different arts and ways they do things. I know he's quite talented, and I'm not trying to take that away by any means, but where's the depth?
Wesley Snipes allegedly has a 5th dan in Shotokan karate. Does White have an advanced dan rank in any of those 7 arts? Maybe it's wrong, but I have more respect for a high rank in one art (so long as it's actually earned) than 1st or 2nd dan in 7 or 8 different arts. |
It is a bit suspect, this belt collecting. He's even a black belt in both ITF (old school style) and WTF (modern Olympic style) of TaeKwonDo which surprised me even more given all his other styles. To find time for all of this! A black belt in Shotokan, Goju Ryu and Kyokushin take 5 years respectively, no? He trained them all simultaneously? |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Prototype wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
There's my thing about Michael Jai White...
That video said he holds black belts in 7 different arts. I thought it was 8. What's his highest rank? Does he get a 1st or 2nd dan and then move on?
My real question is what is the depth of his knowledge of any of them? It appears on the surface to be more collecting black belts than actually advancing further. I understand he's an actor and needs to move different ways for different roles. I get curiosity of different arts and ways they do things. I know he's quite talented, and I'm not trying to take that away by any means, but where's the depth?
Wesley Snipes allegedly has a 5th dan in Shotokan karate. Does White have an advanced dan rank in any of those 7 arts? Maybe it's wrong, but I have more respect for a high rank in one art (so long as it's actually earned) than 1st or 2nd dan in 7 or 8 different arts. |
It is a bit suspect, this belt collecting. He's even a black belt in both ITF (old school style) and WTF (modern Olympic style) of TaeKwonDo which surprised me even more given all his other styles. To find time for all of this! A black belt in Shotokan, Goju Ryu and Kyokushin take 5 years respectively, no? He trained them all simultaneously? |
Well, he doesn't exactly have a 9-5 job. I'm sure he's got quite a bit of down time between acting gigs. And he's probably taking private lessons.
There's also a lot of crossover between a lot of the arts he's studied/studying - Kyokushin is a blend of Goju and Shotokan, so he wouldn't have to learn a ton of new kata, and the hand and foot techniques are quite similar between the 3; there's variation, but someone coming from one wouldn't be completely lost. Same can be said for Tang Soo Do. Again, variations.
As far as WTF and ITF TKD, how different are they? And again, variations on each other? Technique wise, is TKD completely different than karate?
Perhaps it's like learning several Latin based languages; after one or two, the rest are a lot easier to learn. Or so I've been told.
Edit: I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he earned every one of those belts. He's allegedly been training since he was a kid, and having significant previous experience in other striking arts would shorten his time considerably, not to mention that he seems to be an excellent athlete, so things will come to him quicker and easier.
But again - what's the depth of knowledge? If he'd stuck to one style of karate and judo all these years, would he be a far better MAist? Would he be at master level or near it? |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Famous and rich or average and anonymous everyone is a same when it comes to the a value of achievements. Being an expert at one thing is more worthy of consideration than being just good at 10.
To stay on the subject of martial arts and famous people, Seagal's 8th dan(or is it 7th) is more valuable than the multiple blackbelts in half a dozen systems others might have. Collecting is collecting and it is different than dedicating the time necessary to learn skills and become an expert at something. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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For me, it's always been quality over quantity.
Earning one black belt after another is the choice of the practitioner, and not me, in which I will respect their decision to earn multiple black belts. It's just not for me!!
That's why, and it was my choice to do so, I've dedicated my MA life to one style, albeit, I've dabbled in a wide plethora of MA styles through cross-training because not one style of the MA is that complete across the board.
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on the post.
