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Muscles or skills?
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Muscles wil win |
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6% |
[ 1 ] |
Skills will win |
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93% |
[ 15 ] |
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| Total Votes : 16 |
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| Author |
Message |
Tef
Yellow Belt
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 77
Location: Berknam, Shaolifornia
Styles: Shaolin Kempo, Wu-Tang Sword, Muay Thai, Kechwa MA
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 Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:12 am Post subject: |
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I would have to agree with a lot of you who explain the many variables. Every MA is not ridiculously skilled and every body builder has no fighting skill. Personally, I find that most people i know who body build can't fight. This one kid, I'll call him "Tom," does Crew (boat rowing) and sadly takes steriods, and is pretty ripped. He got into a fight with a kid named "Sam," who has no professional fighting experience other than street fighting and is not muscular at all. Tom gets smashed on in about 10 seconds.
Moral of the story:
At Berkeley High, buff fools get scraped cuz they think they all that.
and
Tom is a weakling.
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Rainbow_Warrior
Blue Belt
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 349
Styles: Now : MMA/luta livre/Thai , before :Kung fu,kick boxing , boxing, amateur wrestling
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:44 am Post subject: |
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Two things
1-When you say Big , you mean tall ? mean heavy ? or tall and heavy ?
A lot of tall guys are like long worms...so..
2-I think that a guy who does powerlifting seriusly , is very strong. I saw two guys lifting a car .... And I see in my gym very strong guys that can break my chest with a finger.And I am not a skinny boy.
Technique may win strenght. But you need TONS of technique to defeat a young hulk hogan.
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ThePhenom
Yellow Belt
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:13 am Post subject: |
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skills>stregnth (plus body builders aren't that strong)
it's a trained fighter vs a no skilled oponent |
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Rainbow_Warrior
Blue Belt
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 349
Styles: Now : MMA/luta livre/Thai , before :Kung fu,kick boxing , boxing, amateur wrestling
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| (plus body builders aren't that strong |
You are very wrong.......A guy who goes to gym every day and train hard, may be uber strong.....I saw body builders doing bench press with 500 pounds , isn´t that strong ???
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elbows_and_knees
Black Belt
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1795
Styles: thai boxing, grappling
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ThePhenom wrote: |
skills>stregnth (plus body builders aren't that strong)
it's a trained fighter vs a no skilled oponent |
Not all trained fighters are skilled. that's why you have so many that get mauled in street fights. Actually, training MA can make you fight WORSE... |
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elbows_and_knees
Black Belt
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1795
Styles: thai boxing, grappling
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Tef wrote: |
I would have to agree with a lot of you who explain the many variables. Every MA is not ridiculously skilled and every body builder has no fighting skill. Personally, I find that most people i know who body build can't fight. This one kid, I'll call him "Tom," does Crew (boat rowing) and sadly takes steriods, and is pretty ripped. He got into a fight with a kid named "Sam," who has no professional fighting experience other than street fighting and is not muscular at all. Tom gets smashed on in about 10 seconds.
Moral of the story:
At Berkeley High, buff fools get scraped cuz they think they all that.
and
Tom is a weakling. |
that has nothing to do with bodybuilding - he's just not a fighter. myself, sohan, and several other current / ex bodybuilders and powerlifters that would've mauled both tom and sam. |
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ThePhenom
Yellow Belt
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Rainbow_Warrior wrote: |
| Quote: |
| (plus body builders aren't that strong |
You are very wrong.......A guy who goes to gym every day and train hard, may be uber strong.....I saw body builders doing bench press with 500 pounds , isn´t that strong ??? |
no i am not very wrong  some are strong but most have the body of a corvette and then engine of a lawnmower, if you know what i mean....Bodybuilders train for muscle, not strength |
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elbows_and_knees
Black Belt
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1795
Styles: thai boxing, grappling
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ThePhenom wrote: |
| Rainbow_Warrior wrote: |
| Quote: |
| (plus body builders aren't that strong |
You are very wrong.......A guy who goes to gym every day and train hard, may be uber strong.....I saw body builders doing bench press with 500 pounds , isn´t that strong ??? |
no i am not very wrong some are strong but most have the body of a corvette and then engine of a lawnmower, if you know what i mean....Bodybuilders train for muscle, not strength |
no, you are indeed wrong. Bodybuilders push heavy poundages to get those muscles. They are very strong. you can always test it out though. Take the strongest, non weight training guy at your school to a gym. Let him lift against the strongest guy there at the time.
the result? your guy will lose the contest. Why? he's not as strong. I see the point you are trying to make, but you are making it the wrong way, like you are misinterpreting your teacher or misquoting something you read. |
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Andrew_Patton
Orange Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Michigan, USA
Styles: kobayashi shorin-ryu, matayoshi kobudo, sui-kendo, Kodokan Judo, BJJ, Kyokushin
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:50 am Post subject: |
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no, you are indeed wrong. Bodybuilders push heavy poundages to get those muscles. They are very strong. you can always test it out though. Take the strongest, non weight training guy at your school to a gym. Let him lift against the strongest guy there at the time.
the result? your guy will lose the contest. Why? he's not as strong. I see the point you are trying to make, but you are making it the wrong way, like you are misinterpreting your teacher or misquoting something you read. |
Actually, I know 9 out of ten times that's absolutely correct, but we just recently had a few linebackers come in at the BJJ school I go to (from notre dame university no less) and nearly all of them said my brother who trains with us has extrodinary strength... the smallest of these guys was around 240-250lbs and my bro is 190 soaking wet, in fact he fights at 170. And they were all outmuscled by him.
And yes, I'm aware they aren't 'bodybuilders' or 'powerlifters' but they do put up large amounts of weights and they are used to pushing around a lot of mass on the field... and they're grappling cardio sucked  FYI |
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elbows_and_knees
Black Belt
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1795
Styles: thai boxing, grappling
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'm willing to bet they weren't outmuscled - they were - for lack of a better term - out enduranced.
for example, if we are rolling and you shoot for an arm bar and I try to defend it by grabbing my other arm and holding on for dear life, we are now in a battle of endurance - to see who will out last who and either get the armbar or lose it. there are sutations like this all the time in MA - they are situations of endurance, not strength.
also, "grappling cardio" is anaerobic endurance. football is more of a cardio sport, if you are playing for any length of time. there is a different system being worked.
Like I said, I understand the point you guys are making, but you are making it the wrong way. the guys you are referencing aren't stronger - in this instance they have better cardio and better endurance, which is different from raw strength. |
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on the post.
