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Jay
Black Belt
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 1190
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 Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| tallgeese wrote: |
Granted. The concepts, in general, have been around a while.
However, how many people were talking about this kind of thing in the 70's. JKD was a mindset movement that has continued to influence arts to this day.
Even now, I hear alot of ma-ist talk about mindset and combat efficicency. However, I see very little of it. Lee was the highest profile advocate of this highly important aspect of fighting. His classifications that bushidoman reviews above speaks to this. |
The concepts are actually part of zen buddhism and are explained well in the the book Zen In The Art Of Archery. As a little quip to BushidoMan's last sentence
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| "I hope that my musing here has created some sense of meaning in working toward "Artlessness." |
If you attach a meaning to achieve it you are not being 'it'
Ahhhh Zen. Bruce Lee drew heavily from both zen and Taoism which is where alot of his quotes come from.
I really like the part about stalling in the Stage of Art. In JKD Bruce Lee assigned 3 definitions for different 'versions' of this.
A person is either intellectually bound, emotionally bound or physically bound. The first means thinking too much about technique, the second being too concerned with the welfare of either yourself or your opponent while sparring and the third using too much muscle.
Tallgeese I agree, im in the second stage, still learning and am likely to be there for a long time yet. The key thing is in JKD is efficiency above everything else. How many times do you see someone shoot straight at the target with no preparation and no misdirection along the way.
Bushidoman im glad you chose this topic I really like it and enjoyed your article about it.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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MasterPain
Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou
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| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:20 am Post subject: |
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That which you call the Tao is not the Tao? And a peanut is neither a pea nor a nut?
Excuse me, I'm feeling a little faklimpt. Talk amongst yourselves.
10 points to anyone who gets the reference.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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MasterPain
Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou
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| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
Saturday Night Live.  I forget the skit name, but if I remember right, it was "like butta!" |
Yep Coffee Talk.
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Taiikuka
Yellow Belt
Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 30
Location: Franklin Square. NY
Styles: Kendo Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Jeet Kune Do, BJJ, Muay Thai Kickboxing
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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I read that book many years ago and it is insane just how simple of a view one needs of the arts once one understands them. The Quote you have from Lee is the truest thing I have ever ready.
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-- Karate Kid, The
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
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iLight
White Belt
Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 3
Location: Utah
Styles: Aiki-Kenpo
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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That clarified alot of questions I've been holding onto for awhile.
I'm a big Bruce Lee fan and am always wondering if I'm fully understanding what he means when he expresses his thoughts.
I get how he was great at martial arts and could teach alot but I wonder if his thoughts would be any more powerful than my own?
Does that make sense?
If I were to do what he did would it work for me? |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| iLight wrote: |
That clarified alot of questions I've been holding onto for awhile.
I'm a big Bruce Lee fan and am always wondering if I'm fully understanding what he means when he expresses his thoughts.
I get how he was great at martial arts and could teach alot but I wonder if his thoughts would be any more powerful than my own?
Does that make sense?
If I were to do what he did would it work for me? |
You could try to imitate Lee, but then, it wouldn't be you, would it?  Think about the things he mentions, analyze what you do, and then come to your own conclusions. As time goes on, and you gain experience, and re-analyze, your thoughts and ideas may change. That's pretty much how it works.
I'm a big Bruce Lee fan, too, but don't too caught up in the Lee stigma. I wouldn't necessarily agree with all of his thoughts on everything, but all of his thoughts are worth evaluation.
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Jay
Black Belt
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 1190
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| iLight wrote: |
That clarified alot of questions I've been holding onto for awhile.
I'm a big Bruce Lee fan and am always wondering if I'm fully understanding what he means when he expresses his thoughts.
I get how he was great at martial arts and could teach alot but I wonder if his thoughts would be any more powerful than my own?
Does that make sense?
If I were to do what he did would it work for me? |
You could try to imitate Lee, but then, it wouldn't be you, would it? Think about the things he mentions, analyze what you do, and then come to your own conclusions. As time goes on, and you gain experience, and re-analyze, your thoughts and ideas may change. That's pretty much how it works.
I'm a big Bruce Lee fan, too, but don't too caught up in the Lee stigma. I wouldn't necessarily agree with all of his thoughts on everything, but all of his thoughts are worth evaluation. |
I was the same actually. Im still a fan but not so 'die hard'.
I mean you gotta do what you gotta do. There is no point trying to imitate him. I mean you can use his techniques which is what JKD is about right but not all of them are gonna be useful. Same with any martial art, theres stuff you like and stuff you dislike.
Theres a great quote actually and I can't remember it exactly, but I think he was talking to one of his students. The student wanted to know how he could fight exactly like Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee just said' You don't want to learn how to fight like me, you want to learn how to fight like you because if you fight like me your gonna get hurt'
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| sojobo wrote: |
Interesting read.
The Japanese have a similar “3 levels” when it comes to teaching. It is called Shu-ha-ri.
Shu = to embrace the kata (art)
ha = to diverge from the kata (art)
ri = to discard the kata (art)
Certainly what lee seems to be describing in the last two stages are similar to that of “shu” and “ri”.
Here is a fantastic essay on the subject by Takamura Yukio head master of the Takamura-ha branch of Shindo Yoshin-ryu.
http://www.shinyokai.com/Essays_TeachingShuHaRi.htm
It’s a bit wordy, but well worth a read as I would suggest it offers a little more depth on the subject.
Sojobo |
I also got to read a bit of a blurb on Shu-Ha-Ri in a footnote at the back of Shotokan Karate: A Precise History. It was a fairly brief explanation, but it did lend itself to many of the same aspects that Lee was talking about as well.
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on the post.
