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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12964
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ps1 wrote: |
| NightOwl wrote: |
Doesn't simpler forms help you get down the moves faster though?  I can see the benefit of training both sides though. |
Sounds like we're talking about forms that are for 2nd and 3rd dans. So, in theory, they should have an excellent grasp of the basics. I'm not saying that means they shouldn't or don't need to practice them, just that it's safe to practice the more difficult aspects at this point. |
Even at the lower rank levels, the forms are still fairly simple as far as movements go. However, the forms are used to represent the skill and technique levels of development better, I think. The first form has a front kick on each leg, and a side kick on each leg. My current TKD style's white belt form has no kicks. The orange belt form (2nd ATA belt) introduces the round kick, and has front kicks in it as well. The 3rd form uses a jump front kick, the 4th form uses a round kick/reverse side kick combination, etc. GM Lee wanted to have more kicks in TKD forms, and worked them in in a fashion that allows increased technique development at each rank.
Hope that helps. 
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dete
Orange Belt
Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 138
Location: gotham city
Styles: full contact Karate and grappling
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: |
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most people that talk about linear & circular are usually talking from a Traditional Martial Art point of view, usually those that do combat sports do not think like this.
If you look at Boxing, it has both. jab & cross is a very efficient straight line.
The ABC of boxing. Yet equally important and claimer of many KOs is the left hook. which is circular. You can see in their foot work that clearly it is not just about straight lines.
but do to rule restraints Boxing to me is more linear than let's say Thaiboxing which has many circular attacks. The attacks come in from the outside to the inside unlike Boxing which many of the attacks come in from the inside.
for example the ideal place for a boxer is inside the opponent's arms, under their chin, right infront of them, so they can land uppercuts to the chin, heart, spleen, liver shots all possible KO shots.
you do that to a Thaiboxer, they will clinch you and knees & elbows will come in. Which are more powerful shots than the hand. The Thaiboxer prefers to be on the outside working you down with leg kicks, or grabbing your head to clinch which is easier to do when you shell up like a boxer.
oops I've changed topics from linear & circular to inside & outside
my bad 
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12964
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| dete wrote: |
oops I've changed topics from linear & circular to inside & outside
my bad |
That's not such a bad thing.  I think those are interesting ideas that you point out. Do you think, however, that fighting inside/outside is due more to preference than style? For example, I have heard that there are Boxers who like to fight inside, and those who like to fight outside. I imagine the same is for some Thai fighters. Do you think this is true?
Also, do you think that fighting inside gives makes circular strikes (elbows, uppercuts, hooks) more applicable, and fighting outside tends to lend itself to more linear motions? Just curious as to what your opinion on this is.
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dete
Orange Belt
Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 138
Location: gotham city
Styles: full contact Karate and grappling
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
Do you think, however, that fighting inside/outside is due more to preference than style?
Also, do you think that fighting inside gives makes circular strikes (elbows, uppercuts, hooks) more applicable, and fighting outside tends to lend itself to more linear motions? Just curious as to what your opinion on this is. |
I think in each sport there are fighters that prefer inside/outside like you said. Because each sport does both & circluar & linear as well.
But style wise I think it has been shown in many fights that generally, Boxing has it's strengths a bit more linear & on the inside.
And Thai style circular & on the outside.
What's funny is, if you blast a guy with a 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, (repeated jab cross) it is seemingly linear but to me watching Vitor Belfort, studying, Mayweather, Roy Jones, Jr. & wing Chun, it actually has circular motions in it
Get close up to a bag and throw an uppercut, does that seem circular to you? I just did one and it seems straight to me
I throw a hook from close range & it feels straight.
Do a step/lundge hook like Tyson, then it's very circular because of the footwork.
circular/linear, inside/outside is very black & white simple concepts, and I think I just brought out the grey areas and made it very complex, but I think that is the beauty of martial arts 
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12964
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:12 am Post subject: |
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You bring up some good questions there. I think that the hook and uppercut, in general, are circular, because the energy is coming around in an arc, although it may be a tight one. I think that the uppercut has a tight arc, but it is still there.
The interesting thing about the jab/cross combinations is that the punches are linear, but the footwork that generates power for the punches seems to be circular in nature.
Very good points to bring up!
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 987
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:34 am Post subject: |
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Hm....could the argument perhaps be made that grappling is circular as well?
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12964
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| NightOwl wrote: |
| Hm....could the argument perhaps be made that grappling is circular as well? |
I think that much of it probably is. I have a book by Wally Jay titled Small-Circle Jujitsu...
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Kajukenbopr
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 922
Styles: Kajukenbo - Emperado Method
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: |
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look at aikido movements- if that is not circular, i dont know what is...
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12964
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Kajukenbopr wrote: |
| look at aikido movements- if that is not circular, i dont know what is... |
Good point as well. Another book I have is titled Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere...
Another circular analogy. I think the cirlcle is a big part of how the human body moves.
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Kajukenbopr
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 922
Styles: Kajukenbo - Emperado Method
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Kajukenbopr wrote: |
| look at aikido movements- if that is not circular, i dont know what is... |
Good point as well. Another book I have is titled Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere...
Another circular analogy. I think the cirlcle is a big part of how the human body moves. |
moving in circles is an alternative to our everyday movement, when we walk, or when you move your arms, be it for greetings or to move things.
At least, that is my opinion.
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on the post.
