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Ziyad
Yellow Belt
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 34
Styles: Mostly Capoeira
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 Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: Circular vs. Linear styles |
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Linear strikes are quick and to the point. Very effective and harder to block or dodge in general. On the other hand, as I see it, if you do manage to block them, it's easier to block effectively compared to when you block a circular attack (block a round house with your arm, anyone?).
A linear style like kickboxing has a more pronounced disadvantage, however, when you're not the faster or longer-reaching striker. Because, unless I'm mistaken, the arsenal of a linear style is limited.
A circular style, almost by its nature, is slower with strikes, but has a much wider range of movement. Dodging inside attacks to open a defense. The freedom is much greater in a circular style, but that is sometimes only aesthetics. The power may be greater on average, but the control more limited. And it's easier to get inside of the defense of a circular style.
In essence, it seems like purely linear styles went only to the basics and although it's effective training, it's only effective to the degree that you can force your opponent to play the same game (or, of course, have an opponent who's unaware of strategy).
A purely circular style, on the other, has incredible surprise and is harder to attack. But it's like only learning the advanced stuff and never grasping the basics. And surprise is only good in so far as that you manage to pull it off and if you haven't when it matters, you're much more defenceless.
Of course, it's better to combine the best of both, but I'm trying to find out what is the best of both. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12924
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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I think that the styles are based more on personal preference here. I'm not really sure that circular has that much advantage over linear, or vise versa. I think that footwork and overall body movement would play a stronger role as opposed to linear/circular movement.
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Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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Havoc88
Orange Belt
Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 159
Location: Netherlands
Styles: Shotokan Karate
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Circular vs. Linear styles |
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| Ziyad wrote: |
In essence, it seems like purely linear styles went only to the basics and although it's effective training, it's only effective to the degree that you can force your opponent to play the same game (or, of course, have an opponent who's unaware of strategy). |
I do not know if I get what you really mean. You say here that lineair styles only teach basic movements. My shotokan style is mainly lineair movements. The movements are quick and powerfull. But from your point of view, styles that mainly train lineair movements will have a disadvantage because it is to basic.
I do not agree with you. But maby I just got you wrong.
Tom
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Train harder!
Currently: 7th kyu, yellow belt |
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cross
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1864
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| A linear style like kickboxing has a more pronounced disadvantage, however, when you're not the faster or longer-reaching striker. Because, unless I'm mistaken, the arsenal of a linear style is limited. |
What seems like a disadvantage is actually one of the main things (along side training methods) that makes it so effective. Having a "limited" arsenal doesnt always equal a less effective system. The less techniques you have to choose from, the better, in a confrontation. Knowing a few well drilled techniques that you can execute without indecision is always better than knowing loads of techniques and freezing up because you dont know which one to do.
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| Of course, it's better to combine the best of both, but I'm trying to find out what is the best of both. |
Id say the best of both is exactly that.....both. Rarely would you find a style that is one without at least some of the other. So that means its a good idea to train a nice mix of both and see the techniques for what they are, just tools. Select the right one for the right job. |
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baronbvp
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1127
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: JKD/MMA, Muay Thai, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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I think people who excel at circular styles have limber bodies and joints and are natural art in motion. They can often dance well for the same reason.
That makes me a linear fighter.
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Only as good as I make myself be, only as bad as I let myself be.
Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move. |
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 987
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| baronbvp wrote: |
I think people who excel at circular styles have limber bodies and joints and are natural art in motion. They can often dance well for the same reason.
That makes me a linear fighter. |
Hmmm, 'One does not know one's opponent until he has seen him dance' 
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Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
~Theodore Roosevelt |
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lordtariel
Black Belt
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 1709
Location: Oregon
Styles: (Past)Judo, Yang Family Tai Chi, (Current)Shito-Ryu Karate, Kobudo(Tonfajitsu)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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I believe both types of movement have there place, but the fastest route from point A to point B is a straight line...
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baronbvp
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1127
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: JKD/MMA, Muay Thai, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery
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| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Hmmm, 'One does not know one's opponent until he has seen him dance' |
Good point, NightOwl! Perhaps there will be dance fighting...
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Only as good as I make myself be, only as bad as I let myself be.
Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move. |
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1705
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Circular vs. Linear styles |
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| Ziyad wrote: |
A linear style like kickboxing has a more pronounced disadvantage, however, when you're not the faster or longer-reaching striker. Because, unless I'm mistaken, the arsenal of a linear style is limited. |
I wouldn't really call kickboxing a purely linear style. It utilizes roundhouse, axe, and wheel kicks. It also has boxing strikes; the hook and uppercut are not purely linear either. Additionally, I think what you're seeing as a limited arsenal is actually what's left when you throw out what doesn't work in their sport. For example, why would a kickboxer need to learn a dragon sweep? It's not legal for them to performa a take down so it is useless to them.
I would actually go as far as to say that there are no truely circular techniques. Just unusual angles of attack.
Please provide some more systems that you feel are linear. Let's see if we can figure out why they're that way.
| Ziyad wrote: |
A circular style, almost by its nature, is slower with strikes, but has a much wider range of movement. |
Same here. Give examples of "circular styles."
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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it."
www.ohiobjj.com |
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baronbvp
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1127
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: JKD/MMA, Muay Thai, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Fencing is linear. 
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Only as good as I make myself be, only as bad as I let myself be.
Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move. |
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on the post.
