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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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 Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:05 am Post subject: Conditioning |
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Tonight I had a " Bare-Knuckles Conditioning session " for 90 minutes. I am really sore with some lumps & bruising here & there 
What is your thoughts about conditioning in general ?! Is it important ?! does it have any health related risks (any effects on the internal organs) on the long run ?!
I wasn't very comfortable during tonight's session but I really started to get the meaning of "" NEVER GIVE UP "" & that's why I followed my sensei instructions till the last minute.
My other question will be, if in any session you feel uncomfortable, do you speak up during the session or you speak to CI after the session or you don't speak up at all ??!!!
Sorry for the long post !
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Conditioning is important aspect of martial artists but not to the point that it puts a person out of action for long periods of time; then it would be counter productive.
Bumps and bruises can sometimes be a part of the conditioning process but long term damage to oneself once again is counter productive.
Conditioning with a brute theme is not for everyone as age, health conditions, frailty's and strengths differs from person to person.
Conditioning can interfere with the need to take time out from work, due go injuries, which is not practical for financial reasons.
Conditioning should have it's limits based on the individual and not imposed unless we are talking about military boot camp.
What might seem normal conditioning for me isn't for others and their wishes need to be respected; otherwise it could be considered to be abusive.
Therefore students should speak up to the person in charge and is rightly advisable if the conditioning seems overly painful or damaging. |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Conditioning is important aspect of martial artists but not to the point that it puts a person out of action for long periods of time; then it would be counter productive.
Bumps and bruises can sometimes be a part of the conditioning process but long term damage to oneself once again is counter productive.
Conditioning with a brute theme is not for everyone as age, health conditions, frailty's and strengths differs from person to person.
Conditioning can interfere with the need to take time out from work, due go injuries, which is not practical for financial reasons.
Conditioning should have it's limits based on the individual and not imposed unless we are talking about military boot camp.
What might seem normal conditioning for me isn't for others and their wishes need to be respected; otherwise it could be considered to be abusive.
Therefore students should speak up to the person in charge and is rightly advisable if the conditioning seems overly painful or damaging. |
Thanks Alan, problem is conditioning with low grades who can't control power !
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Conditioning |
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| Safroot wrote: |
Tonight I had a " Bare-Knuckles Conditioning session " for 90 minutes. I am really sore with some lumps & bruising here & there
What is your thoughts about conditioning in general ?! Is it important ?! does it have any health related risks (any effects on the internal organs) on the long run ?!
I wasn't very comfortable during tonight's session but I really started to get the meaning of "" NEVER GIVE UP "" & that's why I followed my sensei instructions till the last minute.
My other question will be, if in any session you feel uncomfortable, do you speak up during the session or you speak to CI after the session or you don't speak up at all ??!!!
Sorry for the long post ! |
I am guessing that you are referring to body conditioning versus weapon (hand, foot, elbow, knee, etc.) conditioning.
If you are engaging in this type of practice I would think that you have been taught how to breath and how to tighten your body. The best example of this would be Sanchin training. Although there are many others utilized in other arts this is the most common example.
Depends on what you mean by uncomfortable. If this means its a little unpleasant, then no. You are going to be put into unpleasant situations throughout your training. This is how you grow and learn.
If you mean painful but you can handle it, again no.
If you mean painful as in your getting damaged more so than the occasional bruise, then yes. It is possible that the student your Sensei has put you with does not understand limitations for the training and as such should be talked to so as to avoid serious injury.
We all experience pain and sometimes worse injuries due to training. However this is not a typical thing as most students of the arts have been taught a degree of control and most understand that it is to benefit both the attacker in learning how to strike effectively and the defender in learning how to deflect/absorb/dodge/receive the strike.
If your being struck as hard as the attacker can strike this teaches you nothing and does not give you the chance to learn from the exchange.
I would imagine that you have been taught how to absorb/deflect/dodge and receive the strike before engaging in active body conditioning drills?
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Shugyo!!
This isn't for everyone, and often times, it for no one in particular. Fortitude is needed in anything MA, especially when conditioning, of any type, is being considered as well as being currently trained in it.
Pain no gain!! Well, I don't always subscribe to that mindset, especially if ones well being isn't seriously concerned with in the short and long of it all.
I'll suck it up!! I've no problem with that within myself; I've been sucking it up for 52 years, and I will continue to do so because it's my choice to do so, and it's my choice to no longer do so. However, I will not purposefully injure myself, because that, to me, isn't the MA, nor is its existence dependent on my hurting myself in the scope of learning anything that is of the MA. Not yesterday...not today...not tomorrow; it serves no true purpose(s)!!
I don't want my body to appear overly taxed, nor do I want my body to BE overly taxed literally!! Balance, as in anything, must be present through and through, no matter the goal and/or the way that goal is to be achieved.
Research the conditioning that you're about to partake in, and don't come at it in a haphazardly manner!!
What's for one, is for others, and therefore, not for everyone!!
Condition your way, and not the way of others!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like competitive conditioning is more prevalent (where you are safroot) than cooperative training.
Cooperation between students is usually better first and later with some experience, then add some competitive aspects.
There is a huge amount of conditioning that a person can do alone or with a friend.
Perhaps some people don't know or understand how to control their power because they have never controlled their power and they have only one thing in mind is to unleash it.
A person that fights, ironically doesn't make them a fighter, as we all have the ability to inflict pain on another.
Many martial artists are not fighters but they do however practice how to fight and learn how to inflict pain on others.
Fish swim, birds fly and fighters fight.
Trading punches and kicks is fighting, this is why conditioning is so important.
Fighting is not martial arts as most think this is what it is.
Martial arts is more profound than trading blows, this is why it is considered an art.
Having said all that, I believe 100% in conditioning, because if my martial arts fails me, at least I have a good back up plan, to trade blows and fight. |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Conditioning |
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| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
Depends on what you mean by uncomfortable. If this means its a little unpleasant, then no. You are going to be put into unpleasant situations throughout your training. This is how you grow and learn.
If you mean painful but you can handle it, again no.
If you mean painful as in your getting damaged more so than the occasional bruise, then yes. It is possible that the student your Sensei has put you with does not understand limitations for the training |
Thanks MatsuShinshii for your detailed reply. I guess according to your post, I fall in the NO category. Maybe because this was my first LONG conditioning session I felt uncomfortable !
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Shugyo!!
This isn't for everyone, and often times, it for no one in particular. Fortitude is needed in anything MA, especially when conditioning, of any type, is being considered as well as being currently trained in it.
Pain no gain!! Well, I don't always subscribe to that mindset, especially if ones well being isn't seriously concerned with in the short and long of it all.
I'll suck it up!! I've no problem with that within myself; I've been sucking it up for 52 years, and I will continue to do so because it's my choice to do so, and it's my choice to no longer do so. However, I will not purposefully injure myself, because that, to me, isn't the MA, nor is its existence dependent on my hurting myself in the scope of learning anything that is of the MA. Not yesterday...not today...not tomorrow; it serves no true purpose(s)!!
I don't want my body to appear overly taxed, nor do I want my body to BE overly taxed literally!! Balance, as in anything, must be present through and through, no matter the goal and/or the way that goal is to be achieved.
Research the conditioning that you're about to partake in, and don't come at it in a haphazardly manner!!
What's for one, is for others, and therefore, not for everyone!!
Condition your way, and not the way of others!!
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_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Seems like competitive conditioning is more prevalent (where you are safroot) than cooperative training.
Cooperation between students is usually better first and later with some experience, then add some competitive aspects.
There is a huge amount of conditioning that a person can do alone or with a friend.
Perhaps some people don't know or understand how to control their power because they have never controlled their power and they have only one thing in mind is to unleash it.
A person that fights, ironically doesn't make them a fighter, as we all have the ability to inflict pain on another.
Many martial artists are not fighters but they do however practice how to fight and learn how to inflict pain on others.
Fish swim, birds fly and fighters fight.
Trading punches and kicks is fighting, this is why conditioning is so important.
Fighting is not martial arts as most think this is what it is.
Martial arts is more profound than trading blows, this is why it is considered an art.
Having said all that, I believe 100% in conditioning, because if my martial arts fails me, at least I have a good back up plan, to trade blows and fight. |
I agree Alan, competitive conditioning is more prevelant. I belive in importance of conditioning but my question was if you do lots of conditioning, will it have a longe term effect on your internal organs ?!!! That's my only concern !
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Conditioning is subjective depending on age...
Chi Kung is a (Chinese) way to strengthen internal organs (Among other things) with the idea of gently massaging them against each other.
Chi has had a negative reputation due to outrageous claims and demonstrations.
When Chi is used with common sense a person will become internally stronger and externally stronger; isn't this conditioning?
I have needed to understand Chi properly and its benefits for me to stay alive. As I have had four heart attacks; the last one was six years go.
I have been on deaths doorstep many times, but I have managed to help myself, with putting knowledge into practice, as far away from that doorstep as possible.
Conditioning is also about the quality of food and drink, hygiene, massarge, sleeping, breathing and exercising.
Doing all the right things for yourself is good chi and everything bad you do to yourself is bad chi (Sha)
There are foods that have been recently discovered to be carcinogenic, due to containing Palm Oil. Therefore cutting out this product from your life will be a step in the right direction to prolong and improve your life.
Just as there are foods that contain Antioxidants that will help you to live longer and improve your health, incorporate them in to your life.
Conditioning can be improved upon by keeping up with the latest health statistics and reports.
As I do alot of stretching, then Muscle fibers tear and need to heal, Seeds help to repair micro muscle fibers.
Seeds are an essential Chi food as they contain plenty of Chi energy to help a plant grow. This is why Rice is important to Oriental cultures.
White sugar (Sweet death) is something worth avoiding (Contained in many foods) because in the process of refining it, the nutrients are removed, therefore when we eat it, the sugar absorbs our nutrients away from us.
Honey is a good replacement for sugar. Replacing negative chi with positive chi, will help a person to become stronger, perhaps not with bigger muscles but more importantly with a stronger immune system.
Eating prunes on a regular basis helps a person stay regular; this is positive chi in action. How can a person realistically stay healthy when constipated.
Tap water that contains iodine/bleach has been related to causing varicose veins whereas mineral water is a healthy alternative. Both of my parents suffered from varicose veins; I don't due to drinking mostly mineral water.
The right food and water is a part of conditioning your internal organs with the appropriate nutrients so they work the way they should.
B3 for the heart, Vitamin D for bones, Vitmin C for the skin and so on.
Conditioning is great but adding vitality is also important.
Something as simple as sleeping has all kinds of health benefits if done regularly and many bad health issues if not.
Breathing fresh air somewhere away from pollution is a great health booster.
Everything I have mention is about gathering positive Chi and avoiding negative Chi.
It is possible a little at a time to add more positive Chi in to your life and chip away the negative Chi.
Once a person has grasped the idea of Chi then Chi Kung Conditioning practice makes alot more sense and worthwhile.
Don't take my word for it, ask any Shaolin monk. |
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on the post.
