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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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 Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Luther unleashed wrote: |
| I would agree with the itf looking more like shotokan bushido. I have studfied a small amount of itf tkd and more of wtf. Wtf to me, resembles nothing of what i do in tsd though. I have never heard a tkd school say hyung though thats interesting. |
I would say of the TKD styles out there, the WTF has done the most work of tying to make TKD stand out more from Shotokan and its Karate roots. This is easily seen in the progression of its form/poomsae syllabus over the years. |
Although performed differently, many of the poomsae (pattern) techniques in WTF are the same as in Shotokan but not in ITF. So based on the patterns, it's closer to Shotokan than ITF. Basically Everything has been modified in ITF patterns and the black belt patterns are much more extravagant (plenty of aerial kicks) compared to the ultra conservative WTF/KKW and Shotokan katas. |
I think I would actually say ITF patterns are much closer to Shotokan than the WTF ones, check out this thread where we've been comparing them: http://www.karateforums.com/tkd-forms-a-running-comparison-vt47646.html
Excluding Juche and Moon Moo, the kicking in ITF patterns seems no more more extravagant than WTF poomse. Koryo is pretty flashy when it comes to kicks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH2wQsAUVwY |
You don't think Yon Gae is flashy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAh6zttP2nU |
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:12 am Post subject: |
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OK the jump back kicks can be seen as "flashy". Other than that most of the other stuff is just basic side kicks and hook kicks.
To the original question of which is closer to Shotokan, I do believe ITF looks closer. Most of the ITF patterns are lifted from Shotokan kata and the lower stances, lower kicks seem to me to be closer.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Before I took one year of TKD back in my high school days, when I was a JBB in Shindokan, I was under the impression that the Axe Kick was quite flashy. That darn kick was the bane of my tournament days...I hated that kick because it scored on me out of nowhere, and quite often. Nowadays, the Axe Kick is as normal as the front kick, and not flashy at all!!
I think the jump spinning crescent kick, inside or outside, is flashy, and the rest of the TKD kicks are NOT flashy at all...just common everyday TKD kicks.
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
OK the jump back kicks can be seen as "flashy". Other than that most of the other stuff is just basic side kicks and hook kicks.
To the original question of which is closer to Shotokan, I do believe ITF looks closer. Most of the ITF patterns are lifted from Shotokan kata and the lower stances, lower kicks seem to me to be closer. |
Shotokan katas have in comparison: 0% spin kicks. 0% aerial kicks. 0% hook kicks. 0% Roundhouse kicks. The list goes on.. |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| Prototype wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
OK the jump back kicks can be seen as "flashy". Other than that most of the other stuff is just basic side kicks and hook kicks.
To the original question of which is closer to Shotokan, I do believe ITF looks closer. Most of the ITF patterns are lifted from Shotokan kata and the lower stances, lower kicks seem to me to be closer. |
Shotokan katas have in comparison: 0% spin kicks. 0% aerial kicks. 0% hook kicks. 0% Roundhouse kicks. The list goes on.. |
There are definitely mae geri, yoko geri, mikazuki geri and mawashi geri in Shotokan kata.
Unsu is a pretty "flashy" kata for example containing these kicks: https://youtu.be/vvrkTz7_D9c
Of course TKD forms are going to be more "flashy" than their Shotokan counterparts if you equate "flashy" to "kicking". Its the Foot-Hand-Art. Kicking is an integral part of it. But to say that ITF are more flashy than the Kukkiwon counterparts, I disagree.
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
OK the jump back kicks can be seen as "flashy". Other than that most of the other stuff is just basic side kicks and hook kicks.
To the original question of which is closer to Shotokan, I do believe ITF looks closer. Most of the ITF patterns are lifted from Shotokan kata and the lower stances, lower kicks seem to me to be closer. |
Shotokan katas have in comparison: 0% spin kicks. 0% aerial kicks. 0% hook kicks. 0% Roundhouse kicks. The list goes on.. |
There are definitely mae geri, yoko geri, mikazuki geri and mawashi geri in Shotokan kata.
Unsu is a pretty "flashy" kata for example containing these kicks: https://youtu.be/vvrkTz7_D9c
Of course TKD forms are going to be more "flashy" than their Shotokan counterparts if you equate "flashy" to "kicking". Its the Foot-Hand-Art. Kicking is an integral part of it. But to say that ITF are more flashy than the Kukkiwon counterparts, I disagree. |
Shotokan does not have a standing mawashi geri. It does have however a "lying down version of mawashi geri", but that's not the same. |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Prototype wrote: |
Shotokan does not have a standing mawashi geri. It does have however a "lying down version of mawashi geri", but that's not the same. |
Surely that would be flashier?
Out of the two, I still think ITF is closer to Shotokan kata than the Kukkiwon equivalents. They essentially just copied and pasted them and added a TKD twist. Loads of examples of this:
Heian Nidan vs Won Hyo
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
Shotokan does not have a standing mawashi geri. It does have however a "lying down version of mawashi geri", but that's not the same. |
Surely that would be flashier?
Out of the two, I still think ITF is closer to Shotokan kata than the Kukkiwon equivalents. They essentially just copied and pasted them and added a TKD twist. Loads of examples of this:
Heian Nidan vs Won Hyo |
How do you know it's from Shotokan when Funakoshi copied and modified his Katas from Okinawans, who took it from Kung Fu... |
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