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chiflow
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Colorado Springs
Styles: Jukado, Shotokan, Modern Arnis

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:57 am    Post subject: Do Black-Belts have to register themselves as weapons Reply with quote

Back in the Day there was a lot of talk about this and some states were supposed to have laws about this,,
Basically if you were promoted to the rank of a Black-Belt you were supposed to go down to the local police station and register your hands as Leathal Weapons..

Anyone know about this?
Does this still happen?
When i got my BB we did not go down to register

Thanks for your imput
Chiflow bows
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Red J
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 2278
Location: WPB, FL
Styles: Shaolin Kempo Sandan

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stay on this forum and go to page two. You should see a few threads about this with quite a few comments.

BTW, never heard of it (except on Happy Days!)
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AngelaG
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 865
Location: Devon, UK
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only if you know the 5 point palm exploding heart technique...
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Shorinryu Sensei
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2045
Location: Kalispell, Montana
Styles: Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo (Seito/Orthodox) Karate and Kobudo

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a martial arts myth that has been going around since the '60's (at least!) That's all it is...a myth.

Nowhere in the world, except Okinawa, did a martial artist have to register their hands as lethal weapons. For a short time after WWII, Marines that were taking martial arts on Okinawa had to register their hands in an attempt by the military to keep these Marines from getting into fights in the bars. It didn't work, and was discontinued after just a few years...but the myth perpetuates.
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pressureguy
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 78
Location: SC
Styles: Kindai No Karate

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.tafkac.org/faq2k/legal_2007.html

Read that above link. It will give the Legal Beagle website's explanation as to why that is not true.

Here is what that site says:
================

Debunked: Boxers are required to register their hands as "lethal weapons."

Research has failed to reveal any statutory, regulatory or other requirement that boxers -- or anyone skilled in martial arts -- "register" their hands or any other body part as "lethal weapons" in the U.S., UKoGBaNI, Canada, or any other common law nation. However, a criminal defendant's experience in boxing, karate, or other forms of hand-to-hand combat may be relevant to determining various legal issues.

First, in the United States at least, the question of whether hands (or other body parts) of a boxer, martial artist or any other person even qualifies as a "deadly" or "lethal" weapon depends largely upon how "deadly weapon," "lethal weapon," or "deadly force" is defined (usually by statute, which is then interpreted by the courts). _See,_ _e.g.,_ Vitauts M. Gulbis, "Parts of the Human Body, Other Than Feet, as Deadly or Dangerous Weapons for Purposes of Statutes Aggravating Offenses Such as Assault and Robbery," 8 A.L.R.4th 1268 (1981 and supplements); Christpher Vaeth, "Kicking as Aggravated Assault, or Assault With Dangerous or Deadly Weapon," 19 A.L.R.5th 823 (1995 and supplements). Most statutes have been interpreted to require an object external to the human body before a "deadly weapon" element can be met. For example, in _Minnesota v. Bastin_, 572 N.W.2d 281 (Minn. 1997), the Minnesota Supreme Court overruled the trial court's conclusion that the left fist of the defendant, a former licensed professional prize fighter, was a "deadly weapon."

Some courts in the United States have concluded, however, that a criminal defendant's experience in boxing or martial arts should be considered when deciding whether s/he possessed a required intent to cause harm. For instance, in _Trujillo v. State_, 750 P.2d 1334 (Wyo. 1988), the Wyoming Supreme Court found that there was sufficient evidence to support the defendant's conviction for aggravated assault after he punched someone in the head. His history as a trained boxer was one bit of evidence supporting the jury's findings on his mental state. Likewise, in _In the Matter of the Welfare of D.S.F._, 416 N.W.2d 772 (Minn. App. 1988), the Minnesota Court of Appeals held that there was sufficient evidence to conclude that the actions of the defendant, who had "substantial experience in karate," were sufficient to demonstrate his knowledge that he was hitting the victim with sufficient force to break the victim's jaw.

Similarly, a criminal defendant's boxing or martial arts experience may be relevant to determining the validity of a self-defense claim. For instance, in _Idaho v. Babbit_, 120 Idaho 337, 815 P.2d 1077 (Idaho App. 1991), the defendant shot the victim and claimed self-defense. The trial court admitted evidence regarding the defendant's past training and experience as a boxer, concluding that it was relevant to a determination of whether the defendant truly believed it was necessary to shoot the victim in order to protect himself and others. The Idaho Court of Appeals affirmed.

Documented: A criminal defendant's experience in boxing or the martial arts may be relevant to deciding whether the elements of a criminal offense have been proven.
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ShotokanKid
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 14 Nov 2004
Posts: 1855
Location: Southern California
Styles: BJJ, Shotokan Karate, Judo, FMA/Inosanto Kali

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.... when I got my black belt, some kid asked that question and the sensei said this...
He's still the same person isn't he?
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Snakeeel
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 86

Styles: Kung Fu San Soo

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope
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Ben Martin
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 462


PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my sensei was telling me that here in england that if you do martial arts and you have a street fight you can get done for assult with a weppon dono if thats a black belt or not.
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Shorinryu Sensei
Black Belt
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Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2045
Location: Kalispell, Montana
Styles: Shorinryu Matsumura Kenpo (Seito/Orthodox) Karate and Kobudo

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben Martin wrote:
my sensei was telling me that here in england that if you do martial arts and you have a street fight you can get done for assult with a weppon dono if thats a black belt or not.


One quick call to your local police station should answer that question for you I would think. When I was over there in 2000 I was told by my host that if someone walked in the front door and started taking your stuff (it was Christmas-time and we were talking about the presents under the tree), you weren't allowed to do anything to stop them. I thought that was absolutely rediculous!
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ovine king
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 725

Styles: noodle fu

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whao there mama.....
that sounds to me, like the general feeling of what was going on at the time. there was a case around then, of a farmer who had shot and killed one of two guys who were robbing his home. he was arrested and charged with (i think) murder.
the general feeling then was that you were not allowed to defend your home, even from blatent trespass.
take into account the old english saying
"an englishman's home is his castle" and you get an idea of what that case meant to the british psyche.
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