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Ask sensei permission to train in other arts?
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yes |
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31% |
[ 21 ] |
no |
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68% |
[ 46 ] |
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| Total Votes : 67 |
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YoungMan
Blue Belt
Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 258
Location: Somewhere in Michigan
Styles: Tae Kwon Do Chung Do Kwan, some Aikido
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:37 am Post subject: |
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I'd have a meeting with the student where I tell them my expectations of them. I tell them flat out that as a traditional martial arts Instructor, a student should ask my permission to train in another art if they intend to practice under me. If they have a problem asking my permission to do this, they should consider training someplace else, where the Instructor doesn't care what they do. And they shouldn't have a hard time finding one of those schools.
It boils down to respect and trust. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13960
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that it boils down to respect and trust. However, shouldn't the instructor respect the student's wishes as well?
_________________
Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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Montana
Orange Belt
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 195
Location: Formerly Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I agree that it boils down to respect and trust. However, shouldn't the instructor respect the student's wishes as well? |
A karate dojo is not a democracy. Students don't have a vote (basically). They are students, you are the instructor/sensei. It's no different than public school really, except that the student can quit if they don't like it. |
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YoungMan
Blue Belt
Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 258
Location: Somewhere in Michigan
Styles: Tae Kwon Do Chung Do Kwan, some Aikido
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| Exactly. I've seen far too many schools where the Instructor caters to whatever the student wants. Anything to keep him coming back. It's kind of like parenting. You'll thank me for this later, but right now your job is to listen to me and do as you're told. |
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lordtariel
Black Belt
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 1709
Location: Oregon
Styles: (Past)Judo, Yang Family Tai Chi, (Current)Shito-Ryu Karate, Kobudo(Tonfajitsu)
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Montana wrote: |
| A karate dojo is not a democracy. Students don't have a vote (basically). They are students, you are the instructor/sensei. It's no different than public school really, except that the student can quit if they don't like it. |
Actually, in this day and age of contracts the student can't necessarily quit if he wants. Also, I think a sensei should have an influence on a student's life, but he shouldn't be allowed control it. He has the right to say he won't teach if you're doing a second art, but they shouldn't be then allowed to force you to keep the contract you've signed.
If a student practices another art, it should be a separate art and not used in the other class. It's not to say they can't integrate things, but if you're in a Karate class, you should be doing Karate in the class, not some other art.
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There's no place like 127.0.0.1 |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13960
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Montana wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I agree that it boils down to respect and trust. However, shouldn't the instructor respect the student's wishes as well? |
A karate dojo is not a democracy. Students don't have a vote (basically). They are students, you are the instructor/sensei. It's no different than public school really, except that the student can quit if they don't like it. |
In a public school, you take a variety of classes that cover many different spectrums. The variety is already there, and there is often times opportunities to take classes that do hold your interest. It is true that you are the instructor. However, the instructor has responsibilities, just as the student does. If a student can better himself by taking a class elsewhere in a field that I don't cover, like ground fighting, then I would not hold them back from doing it just because I want him to be focused on my stuff.
| YoungMan wrote: |
| Exactly. I've seen far too many schools where the Instructor caters to whatever the student wants. Anything to keep him coming back. It's kind of like parenting. You'll thank me for this later, but right now your job is to listen to me and do as you're told. |
I don't see it as catering. I see it as branching out and exploring, making oneself a better Martial Artist. Keeping an open mind.
I submitted an article that talked about this subject. You can find it here, if you would like to read it: http://www.karateforums.com/martial-arts-monogamy-vt27324-40.html
_________________
Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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USCMAAI
Orange Belt
Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 144
Location: USA
Styles: Combat Karate, Kenpo,Jujitsu, and Boxing
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Montana wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I agree that it boils down to respect and trust. However, shouldn't the instructor respect the student's wishes as well? |
A karate dojo is not a democracy. Students don't have a vote (basically). They are students, you are the instructor/sensei. It's no different than public school really, except that the student can quit if they don't like it. |
In a public school, you take a variety of classes that cover many different spectrums. The variety is already there, and there is often times opportunities to take classes that do hold your interest. It is true that you are the instructor. However, the instructor has responsibilities, just as the student does. If a student can better himself by taking a class elsewhere in a field that I don't cover, like ground fighting, then I would not hold them back from doing it just because I want him to be focused on my stuff.
| YoungMan wrote: |
| Exactly. I've seen far too many schools where the Instructor caters to whatever the student wants. Anything to keep him coming back. It's kind of like parenting. You'll thank me for this later, but right now your job is to listen to me and do as you're told. |
I don't see it as catering. I see it as branching out and exploring, making oneself a better Martial Artist. Keeping an open mind.
I submitted an article that talked about this subject. You can find it here, if you would like to read it: http://www.karateforums.com/martial-arts-monogamy-vt27324-40.html |
I agree with both of you! A student should have enough respect for an instructor to tell him of his choice to cross train, but should be allowed to do so. The only thing I would say to everyone is the same thing I tell my students. Before cross-training in another style/system, you should at least achieve an intermediate level of ability in one. I suggest getting at least a brown belt, so that you have a solid foundation in your parent style, before moving on. It does absolutely no good to confuse your body and mind with systems that may be contradictory at times. Having a solid foundation in one allows you the ability to process the information of other systems, and fit that information into your style. I teach my students that " Your karate and my karate are the same in style, but different in form" .
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"Not every tiger will pounce, but every tiger may!"
K.Mabon
United States Combat Martial Arts Association International |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13960
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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I think it is great to offer recommendations. But for an instructor to tell a student that they can't train in another style, is a bit intrusive, I think. As far as gaining experience in one style prior to going into another, that has its pros and cons as well. I think training in a striking style and a ground style at the same time would work pretty well together. Training in two striking styles may be a bit more counter-productive, but if a student chooses to do so, then that is great.
If a student would choose to train this way, and he was having trouble in a class I was teaching, I would just slow down his advancement. If he isn't ready to test, then he won't test. However, if he chooses to do this, then who am I to tell him what path his journey through the martial arts is to follow? After all, it is his journey.
_________________
Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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YoungMan
Blue Belt
Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 258
Location: Somewhere in Michigan
Styles: Tae Kwon Do Chung Do Kwan, some Aikido
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| I don't really have a problem with a black belt taking up a different style, providing it is quite different from his base, as long as he waits until his basics and overall technique in the original style are firmly grounded. The problem is that many newbies take up two styles simultanously, cutting their energy and focus in half, and not allowing full development in one style first. How can you worry about two styles when you have your hands full with one? Master one style before moving on, otherwise you learn a little bit from several different styles, but not enough to really absorb and utilize the knowlege. I have more respect for someone who has shown mastery over one style than someone who knows a little bit about several. |
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Adonis
Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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I won't ask permission. I might let them know of my plans though.
However when you do take of two diffrent things, say Shotokan and Ed parker Kenpo. The stance work is diffrent as well as the technique excution it can throw you off, since you might spend more time in one then the other. Especially if you are a begginer and take two of them up. It takes longer to develop them since you are seperating your time.
Plus another issue is some students like a certain technique or stance, and they feel the need to share it with the other students at the gym. Or blurt it out in class to the instructor so EVERY ONE can hear.
WELL IN THIS SCHOOL WE DO IT THIS WAY, or I THINK THIS MOVE I LEARNED IN THIS SCHOOL IS BETTER! Which is really annoying to the instructor since he has a lesson plan, curriculum he is trying to get the students to work on to develop, and that went that gets interupted it is rude. If you took the instructor to the side after class, and respectfully asked his opinon of what he thought of a certain technique you learned is one thing. However being a Jerk and interpruting class with comments is rude.
Where there to learn not to try to teach the instructor. So I seen things like that be an issue before.
However some instructors don't like the idea of going to other styles or instructors. THey do have the right to refuse service to any one, as we have the right to go to who ever we choose to learn from. Just keep in mind with martial arts people develop relationships and it can be personel business. So peoples feelings due get hurt. So that will play a factor when choosing to go to another dojo/dojang/academy
However I stand by the fact that I go where I please, just as the instructor has the right to refuse service. |
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on the post.
