Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Instructor Central
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

MatsuShinshii
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 337
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Over here I think the general trend is to have them sign a waiver that says that their doctor hasn't advised them not to do this type of activity and that to their knowledge they are for and healthy. If they have a pretty existing condition then they should seek medical advice before pursuing.


I guess my question would be, how do you know they have a pre-existing condition unless the student is forth coming. I would imagine that if they told you this and you allowed them to train without their doctors release you would be held somewhat responsible.

I have had students come to me with a doctors note stating that they were limited in certain activities in which case they were allowed to sit out while performing these activities but I've never had a student come to me and say "if I do this I could die".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 5627
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
DWx wrote:
Over here I think the general trend is to have them sign a waiver that says that their doctor hasn't advised them not to do this type of activity and that to their knowledge they are for and healthy. If they have a pretty existing condition then they should seek medical advice before pursuing.


I guess my question would be, how do you know they have a pre-existing condition unless the student is forth coming. I would imagine that if they told you this and you allowed them to train without their doctors release you would be held somewhat responsible.

I have had students come to me with a doctors note stating that they were limited in certain activities in which case they were allowed to sit out while performing these activities but I've never had a student come to me and say "if I do this I could die".

The way these forms are worded is that by signing the student has disclosed all information (to their knowledge) and they understand what the class entails. If the individual is worried about their condition, it is on them to go check it out with their GP and abide by their advice.

The risk is on them not the instructor. As long as the instructor isn't doing anything atypical of what one could normally expect to see in a martial arts class then it's down to the student to ensure they are fit and healthy. The instructor cannot be expected to anticipate an individual's medical condition as long as they take reasonable precautions.
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12235
Location: Houston, TX and/or Van Nuys, CA
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't someone's medical issues the business of the doctor and the patient, and nobody else??!! Seems quite invasive if the SKKA were to want to know more than I'm willing to share??!! Patient rights, imho, should be extended beyond the doctor/patient, whereas, I'm not required to reveal more than I'm comfortable with.

Catch 22...stuck between a rock and a hard place. The safety of the student body as well as the CI, instructors, other employee's, and visitors/guests, must be addressed, for everyone's sake!! Or is it??



_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

MatsuShinshii
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 337
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Aren't someone's medical issues the business of the doctor and the patient, and nobody else??!! Seems quite invasive if the SKKA were to want to know more than I'm willing to share??!! Patient rights, imho, should be extended beyond the doctor/patient, whereas, I'm not required to reveal more than I'm comfortable with.

Catch 22...stuck between a rock and a hard place. The safety of the student body as well as the CI, instructors, other employee's, and visitors/guests, must be addressed, for everyone's sake!! Or is it??




This was the reason I asked. I agree that my personal medical history is my business and no one else's as is the case in most businesses. How then do you know if you do not ask and in asking does this not put the student in a awkward position if there is something there but they do not want to divulge it.

This is the conundrum in whether to require a release or not.

However I would think that the doctor could ok the student for training or not without divulging personal information on the release form. Be it a simple box that is checked yes or no.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12235
Location: Houston, TX and/or Van Nuys, CA
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Aren't someone's medical issues the business of the doctor and the patient, and nobody else??!! Seems quite invasive if the SKKA were to want to know more than I'm willing to share??!! Patient rights, imho, should be extended beyond the doctor/patient, whereas, I'm not required to reveal more than I'm comfortable with.

Catch 22...stuck between a rock and a hard place. The safety of the student body as well as the CI, instructors, other employee's, and visitors/guests, must be addressed, for everyone's sake!! Or is it??




This was the reason I asked. I agree that my personal medical history is my business and no one else's as is the case in most businesses. How then do you know if you do not ask and in asking does this not put the student in a awkward position if there is something there but they do not want to divulge it.

This is the conundrum in whether to require a release or not.

However I would think that the doctor could ok the student for training or not without divulging personal information on the release form. Be it a simple box that is checked yes or no.

It can be the Catch-22, for sure. The doctor saying yes or no, and nothing beyond that, would be sufficient enough to allow the enrollment of said student.



_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 1332
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
If I ran a dojo and were to require any age group to have a doctor's release, it would be 50 and up (no offense to you "old people" ).


Ouch! I need to go to my doctor to get a release to teach now.
I guess that's what I get for asking a question. Honesty that stings.


Yeah, but it's YOUR dojo. Who are you going to sue? Yourself?

_________________
Sweep the leg. No mercy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Spartacus Maximus
Member of the Month
Member of the Month

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1239

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A doctors release, unless requested by the patient, does not have to mention any details other than officially stating that, the person concerned has no major ailments that would make training in martial arts or any other intense physical activity dangerously risky as per professional medical opinion. Basically it is a written note from a doctor saying training is no unusual risk.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

MatsuShinshii
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 337
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
MatsuShinshii wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
If I ran a dojo and were to require any age group to have a doctor's release, it would be 50 and up (no offense to you "old people" ).


Ouch! I need to go to my doctor to get a release to teach now.
I guess that's what I get for asking a question. Honesty that stings.


Yeah, but it's YOUR dojo. Who are you going to sue? Yourself?


I sued myself last night and won. Or did I?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

MatsuShinshii
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 337
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
A doctors release, unless requested by the patient, does not have to mention any details other than officially stating that, the person concerned has no major ailments that would make training in martial arts or any other intense physical activity dangerously risky as per professional medical opinion. Basically it is a written note from a doctor saying training is no unusual risk.


Understood. Do you require this and do you think it is needed?

I have not and will not ask any of my current students to get a release but I am seriously considering it for new students. This whole thing has got me thinking about the liabilities of not doing it and as someone mentioned a liability release, as I currently use, may not hold up in court.

God knows this country is sue happy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Spartacus Maximus
Member of the Month
Member of the Month

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1239

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Besides liability issues, being aware of a student's general physical condition from the beginning can be helpful if there is a need to adjust certain parts of training. Sometimes there are some health conditions that could be of concern but are not obvious at first glance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Instructor Central All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >