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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Over here I think the general trend is to have them sign a waiver that says that their doctor hasn't advised them not to do this type of activity and that to their knowledge they are for and healthy. If they have a pretty existing condition then they should seek medical advice before pursuing. |
I guess my question would be, how do you know they have a pre-existing condition unless the student is forth coming. I would imagine that if they told you this and you allowed them to train without their doctors release you would be held somewhat responsible.
I have had students come to me with a doctors note stating that they were limited in certain activities in which case they were allowed to sit out while performing these activities but I've never had a student come to me and say "if I do this I could die". |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
| Over here I think the general trend is to have them sign a waiver that says that their doctor hasn't advised them not to do this type of activity and that to their knowledge they are for and healthy. If they have a pretty existing condition then they should seek medical advice before pursuing. |
I guess my question would be, how do you know they have a pre-existing condition unless the student is forth coming. I would imagine that if they told you this and you allowed them to train without their doctors release you would be held somewhat responsible.
I have had students come to me with a doctors note stating that they were limited in certain activities in which case they were allowed to sit out while performing these activities but I've never had a student come to me and say "if I do this I could die". |
The way these forms are worded is that by signing the student has disclosed all information (to their knowledge) and they understand what the class entails. If the individual is worried about their condition, it is on them to go check it out with their GP and abide by their advice.
The risk is on them not the instructor. As long as the instructor isn't doing anything atypical of what one could normally expect to see in a martial arts class then it's down to the student to ensure they are fit and healthy. The instructor cannot be expected to anticipate an individual's medical condition as long as they take reasonable precautions.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16417
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Aren't someone's medical issues the business of the doctor and the patient, and nobody else??!! Seems quite invasive if the SKKA were to want to know more than I'm willing to share??!! Patient rights, imho, should be extended beyond the doctor/patient, whereas, I'm not required to reveal more than I'm comfortable with.
Catch 22...stuck between a rock and a hard place. The safety of the student body as well as the CI, instructors, other employee's, and visitors/guests, must be addressed, for everyone's sake!! Or is it??
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Aren't someone's medical issues the business of the doctor and the patient, and nobody else??!! Seems quite invasive if the SKKA were to want to know more than I'm willing to share??!! Patient rights, imho, should be extended beyond the doctor/patient, whereas, I'm not required to reveal more than I'm comfortable with.
Catch 22...stuck between a rock and a hard place. The safety of the student body as well as the CI, instructors, other employee's, and visitors/guests, must be addressed, for everyone's sake!! Or is it??
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This was the reason I asked. I agree that my personal medical history is my business and no one else's as is the case in most businesses. How then do you know if you do not ask and in asking does this not put the student in a awkward position if there is something there but they do not want to divulge it.
This is the conundrum in whether to require a release or not.
However I would think that the doctor could ok the student for training or not without divulging personal information on the release form. Be it a simple box that is checked yes or no. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16417
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
Aren't someone's medical issues the business of the doctor and the patient, and nobody else??!! Seems quite invasive if the SKKA were to want to know more than I'm willing to share??!! Patient rights, imho, should be extended beyond the doctor/patient, whereas, I'm not required to reveal more than I'm comfortable with.
Catch 22...stuck between a rock and a hard place. The safety of the student body as well as the CI, instructors, other employee's, and visitors/guests, must be addressed, for everyone's sake!! Or is it??
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This was the reason I asked. I agree that my personal medical history is my business and no one else's as is the case in most businesses. How then do you know if you do not ask and in asking does this not put the student in a awkward position if there is something there but they do not want to divulge it.
This is the conundrum in whether to require a release or not.
However I would think that the doctor could ok the student for training or not without divulging personal information on the release form. Be it a simple box that is checked yes or no. |
It can be the Catch-22, for sure. The doctor saying yes or no, and nothing beyond that, would be sufficient enough to allow the enrollment of said student.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| If I ran a dojo and were to require any age group to have a doctor's release, it would be 50 and up (no offense to you "old people" ). |
Ouch! I need to go to my doctor to get a release to teach now. 
I guess that's what I get for asking a question. Honesty that stings. |
Yeah, but it's YOUR dojo. Who are you going to sue? Yourself?
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| A doctors release, unless requested by the patient, does not have to mention any details other than officially stating that, the person concerned has no major ailments that would make training in martial arts or any other intense physical activity dangerously risky as per professional medical opinion. Basically it is a written note from a doctor saying training is no unusual risk. |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| JR 137 wrote: |
| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| If I ran a dojo and were to require any age group to have a doctor's release, it would be 50 and up (no offense to you "old people" ). |
Ouch! I need to go to my doctor to get a release to teach now.
I guess that's what I get for asking a question. Honesty that stings. |
Yeah, but it's YOUR dojo. Who are you going to sue? Yourself?
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I sued myself last night and won. Or did I? |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Spartacus Maximus wrote: |
| A doctors release, unless requested by the patient, does not have to mention any details other than officially stating that, the person concerned has no major ailments that would make training in martial arts or any other intense physical activity dangerously risky as per professional medical opinion. Basically it is a written note from a doctor saying training is no unusual risk. |
Understood. Do you require this and do you think it is needed?
I have not and will not ask any of my current students to get a release but I am seriously considering it for new students. This whole thing has got me thinking about the liabilities of not doing it and as someone mentioned a liability release, as I currently use, may not hold up in court.
God knows this country is sue happy. |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| Besides liability issues, being aware of a student's general physical condition from the beginning can be helpful if there is a need to adjust certain parts of training. Sometimes there are some health conditions that could be of concern but are not obvious at first glance. |
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on the post.
