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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1705
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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 Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Adonis wrote: |
ps1, I don't play the lock down (grape vine) game that much any more. I found it less moveable and more often then not I was placed more on my back. Maybe if I trained wth the 10th planent guys more that style of half guard would be better for me. but I only took 3 privates total from 2 of eddies guys.
I gave an Eddie Bravo book to my coach and he has been playing around with it and using it very seccesful with his training partners. So I defiently think it has merit. |
Yeah, no doubt there's merit to it. Afterall, he is among the best in the world.
I have the same problem as you. When I try to use a grapevine, I'm on my back. Since that's not where I want to be, I would prefer to let the grapevine go and get to my side. This allows me to get my underhooks and gives me much more mobility. I'm just not that good at the way Eddie uses it. But then again, that's the nature of Jiujitsu.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12964
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ps1 wrote: |
| Adonis wrote: |
ps1, I don't play the lock down (grape vine) game that much any more. I found it less moveable and more often then not I was placed more on my back. Maybe if I trained wth the 10th planent guys more that style of half guard would be better for me. but I only took 3 privates total from 2 of eddies guys.
I gave an Eddie Bravo book to my coach and he has been playing around with it and using it very seccesful with his training partners. So I defiently think it has merit. |
Yeah, no doubt there's merit to it. Afterall, he is among the best in the world.
I have the same problem as you. When I try to use a grapevine, I'm on my back. Since that's not where I want to be, I would prefer to let the grapevine go and get to my side. This allows me to get my underhooks and gives me much more mobility. I'm just not that good at the way Eddie uses it. But then again, that's the nature of Jiujitsu. |
I think that this is one of the isntances where someone makes some adjustments to an art becuase things work differently for different people. Some will be able to run with it, and others won't. After all, that is actually the reason that the BJJ brand of JJ is around, isn't it? Helio's adjustments. 
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Adonis
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 985
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: |
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http://video.aol.com/video-detail/eddie-bravo-stoner-control-from-half-guard/707924588
This is a vid of him demontrating a move from his half guard. I don't know how he gets on his side so well. I know he pushes up on the ribs and pull his knees in to get the weight off of him for a second to scoot out on his side.
I played it before and it worked but mostly on newbees. Any one else and the hip pressure and weight on me. I haven't be able to move. Unless I Let go and plant my outside leg to scoot my hips out. I might go back and try it again. Becaue I like the grapevine because it makes it harder to pass the half guard. |
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1705
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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You just have to shift. Quite often people move into it. But I just don't understand why he keeps it grapevined. It's not necessary for the move. I think I'll post some half guard stuff.
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Adonis
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 985
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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I guess harder to pass. Are you talking about keepoing the grape vine for diffrent half guard sweeps or for that particular move he was doing?
Seems like for hte move he was doing? |
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dete
Orange Belt
Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 138
Location: gotham city
Styles: full contact Karate and grappling
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: |
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the grape vine(lockdown) is vital.
you use it to hoist your opponent & keep them off balance so that you can shrimp (shift) to stay on your side. This takes a while to learn.
It is also needed to make passing harder as stated, but also, if you don't, it's easy for the guy on top to get you in a leg lock.
Antonio Minotauro Nogueira is awesome with the half guard, but he lost (I think) twice to Ricco Rodriguez in ADCC tournament via leg lock from his half guard. One time for sure was a kneebar. I remember because it happened to me too
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1705
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| dete wrote: |
the grape vine(lockdown) is vital.
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Not really. Most guys don't use the grape vine. You don't really need to hoist the guy. You can just shrimp under. Don't get me wrong. I'm no Eddie Bravo!!! Not by a long shot. I'm not saying he does it wrong...he just does what works for him (and many others I'm sure). It's just that, for me, the grapevine just stalls out the position. I want the guy to move. Then I use his momentum to sweep or his lack of movement to return to guard. I'll make some videos this week to illustrate what I like to do.
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Adonis
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 985
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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I usually don't do the lock down, I did it today in nogi training while rolling, the guy I was going against passes my half guard pretty quickly normally. I grapvined (lockdown) his leg, and pulled my knees which allowed me to get up to my side, I still wasn't able to finish any sweeps or take downs, but I gave him alot more trouble and I think I came back up to my knees with it.
Most of the time though I don't play it. Today it worked for me a little bit. I might explore around more with it later on. |
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pittbullJudoka
KF Sempai
Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 501
Styles: Ryu Kyu Kempo, Matsubayashi Shorin-Ryu, Japanese Jujitsu , Judo, Wrestling, Submission Wrestling, Hayastan, Mixed Martial Arts
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I like some of the stuff Eddie came up with but alot of it is useless against a decently trained grappler but these is some of it I find myself gooing to because of something going wrong and ending up in a position were it works. But to make it really work hip and knee flexablity is amust, and that is something impossible for me because of genetics. |
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Adonis
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 985
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it is useless against a trained grappler. I did a couple of privates back in '04 with Jason Chambers (Eddie Bravo Brown belt) He pulled them off on some purple and brown belts while he was in Arizona.
If were talking specifically the rubber guard, even eddie says he only has a hand ful of stundents who make it part of there game or to go moves. Again your right though about making it effective is the flexiblity, I do enjoy the twister (wrestling guilotine) and some of his half guard moves, I took another private specifically on the half guard, I still have a hard time making it work, I wish I lived closer to his gym to actually train there for awhile, to get some of it down.
For now for the most part I don't work the lock down that much, since I am not very good with it. |
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on the post.
