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cfr
Yellow Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 28
Styles: Muay Thai, JKD, FMA
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 Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: Empty hand striking abilities of FMA. |
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My disclaimer: A lot of my points here will be in general terms. I do realize that there are exceptions to every rule, its all up to the individual, and that every thing is situational. My questions are directed towards most people, not the exceptions.
Greetings. I am considering getting into FMA, but am worried about being able to strike without a weapon. The particular place Im considering begins incorporating empty hands 3 - 6 months after beginiing training. Most FMA's claim to be able to translate their movements into empty hands strikes easily. My concern is that while they may do empty hands, do they do it well? In other words are most FMA guys really able to strike empty handed fast and hard the way other styles would be able to? Of course FMA guys say they can, which for all I know may be accurate. Or they may be delusional. Lets not forget lots of styles claim to know some ground fighting, but then go up against a BJJ guys and realize their ground fighting is worthless.
I would be especially interested to hear from folks that have done both FMA PLUS another empty handed style, but all insights are welcomed. |
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PSBN Doug
KF VIP
Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 3754
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Kuk Sool Won
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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This may sound ignorant, but are you talking about Phillipino Martial Arts when you say FMA?
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Kuk Sool Won - 3rd dan
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12676
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| PSBN Doug wrote: |
| This may sound ignorant, but are you talking about Phillipino Martial Arts when you say FMA? |
I do believe so.
I have read that in FMA, all of the skills that they learn are transitional. They work empty handed, with knife, and with stick. I have seen evidence of this in articles and such, however, have never experienced it myself.
Of course, almost every style has its strengths and weaknesses, and the FMA would really be no different. These things also depend on the teaching focus of the instructors as well. Seeing as the place you are talking about attending doesn't move into doing hand techniques for several months, then their focus is most likely the weapon first.
In the end, you should go watch a class, and perhaps ask for some demonstrations of their hand technique applications, and then judge for yourself.
If you are looking for a style that is more focused on hand techniques, then perhaps you may look elsewhere, to find what you really want.
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Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
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cfr
Yellow Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 28
Styles: Muay Thai, JKD, FMA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| PSBN Doug wrote: |
| This may sound ignorant, but are you talking about Phillipino Martial Arts when you say FMA? |
Sorry, yes. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12676
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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FMA =
Fillipno
Martial
Arts
I think there was a little confusion when you put FMA in the header, but spelled it out as "Phillipino" in your post. Easy misinterpretation. 
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Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
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Montana
Orange Belt
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 188
Location: Formerly Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| PSBN Doug wrote: |
| This may sound ignorant, but are you talking about Phillipino Martial Arts when you say FMA? |
Don't feel bad...I hadn't a clue of what it was either. 
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If you don't want to stand behind our troops, please..feel free to stand in front of them. |
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username8517
Green Belt
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 459
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I have read that in FMA, all of the skills that they learn are transitional. They work empty handed, with knife, and with stick. I have seen evidence of this in articles and such, however, have never experienced it myself. |
As someone who's taken FMA (Doce Pares to be exact) to compliment their striking (Okinawan Karate), I can say that this is correct. Now obviously my experience with one style in the FMA realm cannot account for all styles, but BM summed it up well.
Also, bear in mind that some styles, such as Balintawak focus almost solely on the escrima with empty-hand being more important than knife work, which is entirely non-existent. While Sayoc is focused almost entirely on the knife (or three) with empty-hand being touched on incase you lose your last knife (and when I say your last knife I mean I have met more than a few Sayoc practioners who advocate never leaving the house without at least two knives on them at all times).
But to take it back to the general FMA branch, yes the moves can be transitioned easily if you know what your doing. Since the biomechanics of an attack or block while weilding an escrima will be different and empty-handed, I can see the logic behind the instructor wanting students to wait 3-6 months before transitioning to empty hand techniques. He/She is probably wanting to ensure that all students who walk in through the door have a stable grasp on the basics before complicating things for you.
For clarification, what I mean by complicating things is that when people first begin FMA, they tend to be very rigid and robotic in their moves. This is because people tend to focus solely on their weapon(s) in their hand, putting too much effort in getting the basics down (not that this is wrong, its how most MAs are done). But as you start to get the basics down, your movements will start to become more fluid in application, giving the ability to move around. If you do go and watch a class or two at the school, watch closely if they do any kind of partner drills - you'll definately see a distinction in both ability and fluidity between those that stand in one place and run through the drill and those that circle, move back and forth, and transition from high to low level attacks/blocks.
Now the reason I bring that up is to create a reference point for this - for empty hand techniques, you should aim to be more fluid than when you are weilding an escrima or knife. A good portion of the empty hand techniques you will learn will be elbows, knees, and takedowns. Given that those are close range weapons, you will have to rely on your ability throw a few punches and immediately flow in for one of these close range attacks.
Can they strike hard with these empty-handed techniques? Depends on the school in question and how they train.
But then again, the same can be said about any martial art - I know of at least 1 karate dojo in my area that advocates not putting hip into an attack, believing that the power of a punch should come from the shoulders and arms.
Now, given that in FMA, empty hand techniques aren't as prevalent as they are in karate, Muay Thai, and boxing to name a few, a solid generalization that they aren't as refined or crisp can easily be made.
If you just didn't feel comfortable with the empty hand techinques in FMA, I would recommend cross-trainin in Silat as well. The strikes in Silat compliment nicely with FMA work. |
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PSBN Doug
KF VIP
Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 3754
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Kuk Sool Won
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
FMA =
Fillipno
Martial
Arts
I think there was a little confusion when you put FMA in the header, but spelled it out as "Phillipino" in your post. Easy misinterpretation. |
My original statement about being ignorant holds true. I actually didn't realize the spelling changed between Philippines and Filipino. 
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Kuk Sool Won - 3rd dan
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing. |
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Kajukenbopr
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 921
Styles: Kajukenbo - Emperado Method
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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usually they work pretty well, and most schools should be pretty tough, as far as I've seen.
They tend to be very good at close quarter combat
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<<Kajukenbopr>> Be humble, train hard, fight dirty |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12676
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| PSBN Doug wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
FMA =
Fillipno
Martial
Arts
I think there was a little confusion when you put FMA in the header, but spelled it out as "Phillipino" in your post. Easy misinterpretation. |
My original statement about being ignorant holds true. I actually didn't realize the spelling changed between Philippines and Filipino. |
I think the misinterpretation comes from the phonetics. Phillipines is the anglicized spelling, I think.
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Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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on the post.
