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Uechi Kid
Orange Belt
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Posts: 165
Location: Nor-Cal
Styles: Uechi Ryu
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 Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 11:52 am Post subject: |
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I was just wondering if your sensei sent thirty or forty years on a mountain top in Tibet?
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Sauzin
Purple Belt
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 593
Location: Boise, ID
Styles: Okinawan Kenpo, Goju-Ryu, Kobudo
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't go so far as to call your sensei a con artist. No-touch knock outs do exist. How much is psychological and how much is something else is likely never to be proven, but it does exist. |
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Sauzin
Purple Belt
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 593
Location: Boise, ID
Styles: Okinawan Kenpo, Goju-Ryu, Kobudo
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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In regards to who, I wish I knew more then to say that both George Dilman and Jack Hogen have done a lot of research and had a lot of success. Again this isn't entirely scientific and likely has a lot to do with psychological aspects of suggestion. I may be criticized but I don't believe that is all there is to it though.
Go to www.dillman.com or www.jackhogankarate.com or do a couple of google searches on the guys and do some of your own research. Beware that I don't give Dilman any further recommendation then to say that he has done research. Whether that research has a lick of truth to it should be your own judgment. |
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Mr Pockets
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 199
Styles: striking and grappling
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Sauzin wrote: |
| I wouldn't go so far as to call your sensei a con artist. No-touch knock outs do exist. How much is psychological and how much is something else is likely never to be proven, but it does exist. |
Kind of a bold statement since you also admit it can never be proven. Have you seen it? Are you sure the guy wasn't palming a taser? |
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Sauzin
Purple Belt
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 593
Location: Boise, ID
Styles: Okinawan Kenpo, Goju-Ryu, Kobudo
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr Pockets wrote: |
| Kind of a bold statement since you also admit it can never be proven. Have you seen it? Are you sure the guy wasn't palming a taser? |
Yes I've seen it. No the guy wasn't palming a taser. He (Jack Hogan) was half way across a rather large room from the subject when he did it. He offered 3 separate demo's. He was rather nonchalant about it. He had the guy stand about 8 yards away from him. He stood there with his hands out and about 15 seconds later the subject dropped. He didn't say a word and the subject was local and was not touring with him. One of the 3 times it didn't seem to work. After at least 30 seconds the subject didn't even look dazed. However two of the guys who were standing behind the subject for the purpose of catching him started to bob and weave and a 3rd guy slightly to their left dropped like a sack of potatoes. Coincidently the guy who dropped that time is known for being rather easy to KO and was one of the seminar's local organizers.
So is this proof of projected chi or it’s effectiveness on the street? By no stretch of the imagination. My observations were that there was more at work then just a guy staring down another guy with the inferred subconscious suggestion that it should cause the one guy to pass out. But that was my observation that day yours might have been different.
As for being bold, would his teacher be a con artist if he believes in what he is doing? Doesn't being a con artist infer that someone is employing a purposeful means of deception? How do any of us know his teacher's intention or what he believes? Isn't it rather bold to assume it is malicious?
I think it is very possible that someone completely believe that their no touch knock outs are a legit defense and can be taught. One scenario mentioned at the seminar I attended was if you were in a store during a robbery and wished to subdue a subject as he robbed a counter without having to directly assault them. Or in a similar hostage scenario. I don't think anyone can say for sure that it wouldn't work. Even if it is psychological. If his teacher sees it work for him in class why shouldn’t he show it as a legit technique? How many teachers try every technique they know on the street before they teach it? Do any of us really have proof of everything we use? The answer is no, but we think we have sound theory. I’m not going to criticize another person’s theory just because it differs from my own and I’m certainly not going to call them a conartist. |
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Uechi Kid
Orange Belt
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Posts: 165
Location: Nor-Cal
Styles: Uechi Ryu
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Don't get me wrong. It isn't that I dont beleive that that can't be done. It's that if it can it would take years of intruction and practice.
There is a lot about this world that can't be explained and alot of people want to pass it off as a hoax.
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JusticeZero
Green Belt
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 487
Location: Melbourne, AU
Styles: Capoeira Angola
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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'no touch knockouts' are done by three groups that I know of. 'showman' martial artists, in large groups of people who know what to expect and are hyped to see it happen; certain showman charismatic preachers, in large groups of people who know what to expect and are hyped to see it happen; and stage hypnotists, in large groups of people who know what to expect and are hyped to see it happen. They all demonstrate the exact same methods in practice.
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Sauzin
Purple Belt
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 593
Location: Boise, ID
Styles: Okinawan Kenpo, Goju-Ryu, Kobudo
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I actually know a thing or two about stage hypnotism and from what I observed in the no-touch demo's there was one aspect missing. An inductor. In stage hypnosis there are two types of inductors. Focus inductors that allow a person to focus on an object, sound, or visual stimuli and be talked into a hypnotic state and sudden inductors that startle a person who then quickly falls into a hypnotic state. You see this also when charismatic showman preachers call on the word of God. There was nothing like this with the no touch KO’s I saw. The subject just stood there and looked around. No noise, no fast hand movement, nothing that would indicate an induction. I'm not saying that it still isn't possible that some of the same principles are at work. I'm just saying that it doesn't seem to precisely follow established hypnotic theory. |
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granmasterchen
Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 1027
Location: japan
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 1:44 am Post subject: |
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nagasu ryu is an extention of wado ryu karate
nagasu is the ability to deflect without the use of harsh blows
nagasu is a technique that is used in wado ryu
my guess is that the art is a combination of some of the traditional japanese arts with stress on karate, based off of wado ryu , with strong emphasis on the nagasu technique, also add in the grappling of jujitsu.
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TriStateTerror
White Belt
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 16
Location: Nu-Jerz
Styles: Taekwondo (b4), BJJ (now), Kempo (future)
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Both me And my friend have decided that we are going to continue looking at other schools. Im not sure that this Nagasu Ryu is what I was truly looking for as it was based mostly on street situations and self defense. I am looking more for a grappling art that I could eventually use in competition. I figure I will look more towards BJJ and arts of that nature. Plus I just have a bad feeling about this academy ever since I witnessed the so-called effects of my Sensei's so-called energy.
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Alexis I can't wait to hold you for the first time 7/10/05 your only a few weeks away. |
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on the post.
