Energy used to knock somebody out

Master Jules · Black Belt

Interesting clip....nice excuse about the unaffected athletes though...Ive met his teacher George Dillman at several seminars, and I can honestly tell you that HE did knock me out with a TW 17 (triple warmer 17) shot, but Ive never been affected by any "no touch" knock out attempt.
_________________
~Master Jules......aka "The Sandman"

"I may be a trained killer......but Im really a nice guy"

sei1234 · White Belt

well, i´m not sure if you want to read this, but there´s something interesting about those "no-contact-knockouts".

shaolin grandmaster wong kiew kit ( http://www.shaolin-wahnam.org ) tells something about the 3 ultimate arts in the martial world (wu lin san jue).

these are:
one finger shooting zen (yi zhi chan)
striking across space palm (pi kong chang)
shaolin marvelous fist (shao lin shen quan)

he wrote 2 books ("complete book of shaolin", "art of shaolin kung-fu") where he claims that it´s possible to strike someone with chi who stands several m away when one has mastered one of those technqiues.

here some answers taken from his page:

My sifu told me an occasion when he had a friendly discussion with an old Shaolin master on kungfu matters. While talking the old master moved his palm against some pieces of paper which happened to be hanging down from a string many feet away, causing the paper to flutter, although there was no wind in the room. “Old master,” my sifu exclaimed, “you have attained a very high level in your Strike-Across-Space Palm.”

While praising him, my sifu, who was sitting a few feet from the old master, moved his index finger in circles in front of him. “Young master,” the old master said, “your One-Finger Zen is not bad either.” He had felt my sifu’s force.

In our school, “One-Finger Shooting Zen” is the main method to train for the art of One-Finger Zen. One-Finger Zen is often used in tim-mak, where a master can disable an opponent by using a finger to strike the latter’s energy point. Tim-mak can be very deadly, and therefore is used only when necessary. My sifu told me that in all his fights, he had used it only once. His opponent was like a bull, much bigger-sized and stronger than him, and was very aggressive. But by just striking his index finger at the opponent’s vital point at the base of his throat, the opponent collapsed with white foam coming out of his mouth. My sifu had to administer chi kung therapy to revive him."
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Question 5
Some styles, like Tai Chi and Dachengchuan, are rumoured to be able to generate "empty force" ie. to strike/bounce-off an opponent without actually physically striking him/her. What do you think of this ability?

Answer 5
It may be incrediable, but such force is true. It is found in many other styles of kungfu besides Taijiquan and Dachengquan, and is known by various names. In Shaolin Kungfu it is called pi-kong-zhang, or "Striking-across-Space Palm".

In classical times kungfu masters recognized "the three ultimate arts in the martial world", known in Chinese as "wu lin san jue". They were "yi-zhi-chan", "pi-kong-zhang" and "shao-lin-shen-quan", or One-finger Zen, Striking-across-Space Palm and Shaolin Marvelous Fist. All the three are Shaolin arts.
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Question 6
Are Yi Zhi Chan, Pi Kong Zhang and Shaolin Shen Quan taught at the higher levels of Shaolin Long Fist?

Answer 6
Yi Zhi Chan (One-Finger Zen), Pi Kong Zhang (Strike-Empty Palm) and Shaolin Shen Quan (Shaolin Marvellous Fist) are regarded as the ultimate of martial arts. Using a finger, a palm or a fist, the respective master can seriously injure an opponent from a distance without immediate physical contact. All of these are Shaolin arts.

Whether these very advanced arts are taught at the higher levels of Long Fist or of any other styles of kungfu, depends not on what style of kungfu but on numerous factors like whether the masters know these arts, whether they want to teach, and whether the students are ready for the arts.

Question 7
Can you give me some brief information on Yi Zhi Chan and Shaolin Shen Quan?

Answer 7
A Yi Zhi Chan or One-Finger Zen master can injure opponents by striking their vital points with his index finger from a distance 36 steps away. A Pi Kong Zhang or Strike-Empty Palm master can injure opponents by striking them with his palm from a distance 72 steps away.

The numbers of steps away, 36 and 72, are just approximations. These numbers are multiples of 18, alluding to the Eighteen Lohan Hands, a fundamental Shaolin chi kung exercise.

The numbers 36 and 72, which are the striking distance of One-Finger Zen and Strike-Empty Palm respectively, does not imply that since its striking distance is longer Strike-Empty Palm is superior to One-Finger Zen. In fact, One-Finger Zen is traditionally regarded as the most advanced of these three ultimate arts.
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one finger zen for example is relatively easy to learn, but it certainly takes years to master.

sifu wong kiew kit regularly visits the US and europe to give seminars.
this autumn (2005) he´ll be visiting germany again to give a seminar about shaolin cosmic chi kung, perhaps i´ll attend and ask him some questions.

regards

Master Jules · Black Belt

Please dont misinterpret my post. I do truly believe that those levels of the art are attainable, and I do believe that there are Chinese masters who have reached those levels, from hundreds and hundreds of years ago, up to the present day. What I dont believe, is that there is anyone ( with maybe very very few exceptions like Patrick Lacy ) outside of these Chinese masters who have attained these levels. George Dillman and his organization arent frauds, but they are nowhere near the skill levels which you mention in your post Sei1234.
_________________
~Master Jules......aka "The Sandman"

"I may be a trained killer......but Im really a nice guy"

Sam · Black Belt

IMHO no touch knockouts are impossible... or at least only a result of masssive conincidence, lol.
I've always wanted to understand where the myth comes from, and what the idea behind them is [i.e. how the energy flows ,etc. and whate forces are involved and what is their source]

Adonis · Black Belt

I agree with you sam its intersting to know but I agree with you also on the no-touch KO's being impossible at least impossible in a fight scenerio.

I love how the guy in the video says it only works 40% off the time and doesn't work good on trainded atheletes. LOL! I don't think I want to dedicate my self to a moves and spend along time just for it to work 40% of the time.

I love how he hit the lady and she says "you hit me in the head!" as well as the skinny kid at the end inviting every one down to get knocked out.

Sam · Black Belt

yeah 40% isnt a statistic id trust my life on../..

Cobosan · Yellow Belt

There are doubts in everyones mind about is it true or isnt it. I havent tested it on myself so i will not tell u for sure but I know quite a few people that have been KOed with pressure points but only 1 touchless.

Its a lot like hypnosis - you have to see it ( test it out ) to believe it.

But in my opinion pressure points ( kyusho ) is just the iceing on the cake. Its ment to be just a bonus to another MA ( in our example karate ). And one can only use it in real life when he has suppassed a lot of hard training. Its not sth u learn overnight...

sei1234 · White Belt

@master jules:
that´s also my point of view, i think there aren`t many people who could do such techniques if they are possible.

nevertheless quite interesting what sifu wong kiew kit is claiming.

furthermore he dispersed clouds in the sky by sending chi into them, that was also done publicly and a newspaper wrote about it (1989).

regards

sei1234 · White Belt

@master jules:
that´s also my point of view, i think there aren`t many people who could do such techniques if they are possible.

nevertheless quite interesting what sifu wong kiew kit is claiming.

furthermore he dispersed clouds in the sky by sending chi into them, that was also done publicly and a newspaper wrote about it (1989).

regards

Adonis · Black Belt

Master jules, I have met Dillman also at a seminar and been to a couple of his students seminars.

I have seen the KO's haven't experieced them. accept dillman palming me jaw line so I felt dizzy after that.

That stuff would be interesting to learn same as if some one wanted to learn breaking. All fine and dandy but not something I feel confident to use in a fight.

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