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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 26607
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:42 pm    Post subject: Fighting vs. Self-Defense? Reply with quote

Is there a difference between these two? Are they two seperate stages of an incident? Does self-defense turn into a fight? Or do you consider "fighting" as something that is only done in a ring, or as a challenge match?
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tallgeese
KF Sensei
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Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6604
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a narrow diffference.

Self-defense is actions taken to keep someone from hurting you during an attack (which he controls). YOu're attempting to take back control.

A fight is generally what occurs just after the initiation of your sd efforts, when neither party actually has control. A fight is that effort to gain control over a combative situation.

Again, it's a thin difference. I usually use the terms interchangably, although I prefer the technical destincions above.

Again, great question. should be soem good responses.
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Throwdown0850
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 701

Styles: Judo, BJJ, Uechi Ryu

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this one is a tuffy.. I would say it is the level of violence that separates the two. for example. being forced to "fight" would be self defense to me.. when you can easily talk or walk away from situation and instead fight the guy then that would be a fight to me..
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ShoriKid
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 891

Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling, bits of BJJ

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You get into some pretty tricky territory there when splitting that hair. SD should be focused on survival above all else. When I think of it, fighting means I want to win. While sometimes lining up, they don't always.

Some conflicts you go into with survival in mind, you have to 'win' in order to come out of with as little physical damage as possible.

Some conflicts you go into to win and to do that you have to survive longer than the other guy(s).

Mind set or intent plays more of a function I suppose? Even when you think of SD as something your forced into and fighting is something you chose to do, it comes down to mindset.

I'm conflicted and could ramble at length about this. Heck, I'm certain I have done so RL in the past.
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ShawnMiller
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 31
Location: Augusta, KS
Styles: Shorin Ryu, Kyusho Jitsu

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fighting is something done for ego, pride, or honor.

Self defence is life protection of you, family and friends. no rules, no care of repercussions.
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cross
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive always followed the idea Richard Dimitri at senshido uses.

A fight has 3 key elements that a self defense situation doesn't. These are:

1. Consent - Both parties agree to a fight, in a self defense situation, the attacker chooses you.

2. Awareness- In a fight you are aware that it is going to happen i.e. you both square off, or meet at a certain time/place etc. In a self defense situation you can be ambushed, or a person might be aggressive towards you but you cant always tell for sure if things will go physical.

3. Preparation- Even if you agree to a fight a few moments beforehand there is some time to prepare. Self defense situations often go from 0 to 100 in a matter of seconds.
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are good criterea to go by, cross. I think you are right on the money with them. Even the old "meet me after school" falls under these typical elements. Unless, of course, friends end up jumping in. Even then, however, most times both sides show up with more than enough seconds to even things out.
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kramerpunch
White Belt
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Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 11
Location: SO CAL
Styles: TaeKwonDo

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think self defense is for survival and fighting is to prove who is right or wrong.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right or wrong, in what sense? From a fight sport stand point, I am not sure that I follow you here.
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kramerpunch
White Belt
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Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 11
Location: SO CAL
Styles: TaeKwonDo

PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I miss understood. I took the question as street/bar fighting rather than sport fighting.
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