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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1060
Location: Lost on the West Coast
Styles: Ronin Judoka
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 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: Finger strikes |
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Hey, a quick question for those of the Kung Fu persuasion:
I've notice that alot of styles do strikes with a 'knife hand' rather than a fist. Doesn't that put you at risk for jamming your fingers? How does it work exactly? Thanks!
...Knowledge is power 
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Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
~Theodore Roosevelt |
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DWx
KF Sensei
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 1454
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Just wondering where you would be "jamming your fingers" and why you'd go sticking your hands there? 
Other than that, had very little experience in any kung fu so ignore this comment...
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 14628
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:32 am Post subject: |
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I have done a spear hand strike (finger-tip thrust) into a very thin board, and broke it. It was not the regulation size of testing board, but a thinner board, maybe a 1/2 inch? Although not to be considered impressive, I thought it was pretty cool.
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Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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ggg214
White Belt
Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Finger strikes |
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| NightOwl wrote: |
Hey, a quick question for those of the Kung Fu persuasion:
I've notice that alot of styles do strikes with a 'knife hand' rather than a fist. Doesn't that put you at risk for jamming your fingers? How does it work exactly? Thanks!
...Knowledge is power |
chinese traditional MA considers that using hand in training or fighting is more useful than using fist.especially in your practice.because that makes your body as a whole. |
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lordtariel
Black Belt
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 1709
Location: Oregon
Styles: (Past)Judo, Yang Family Tai Chi, (Current)Shito-Ryu Karate, Kobudo(Tonfajitsu)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Spear thrusts are very effective against the soft fleshy bits(throat, solar plexus, ect), but they take some conditioning if you want to use them against harder targets.
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bluez4u2
Yellow Belt
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 39
Location: Austin, TX
Styles: Wing Tzun \ Latosa Escrima
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Some of them look like finger strikes but they are really throat strikes with the edges of the forearm. They are slashing thrusts to the neck with the intention of hitting the jugular vein and carotid artery and the windpipe.
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Wing Tzun Self-Defense
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1060
Location: Lost on the West Coast
Styles: Ronin Judoka
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:10 am Post subject: |
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I understand that it could do some damage, I'm just curious as to why it would be preferable to a fist.
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Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
~Theodore Roosevelt |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 14628
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| NightOwl wrote: |
| I understand that it could do some damage, I'm just curious as to why it would be preferable to a fist. |
I don't really think that it would be, however, that is just my experience and training. Many people love open-hand strikes. I am not so sure I would ever use a finger-tip thrust, though. Maybe to the eyes, if the opportunity was there.
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Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
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MizuRyu
Green Belt
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 381
Location: Michigan
Styles: Present: Judo/Boxing, Past: Ryu-Te, Tang Soo Do, Wing Chun, BJJ
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Just as you don't use a hammer on a screw, you don't use a fist for all situations. Fingertip strikes (biu tze) are useful for the eyes and throat in my experience. Keeping the fingers somewhat relaxed and thrusting them towards the eyeline is BOUND to contact an eye, which is enough to stun an opponent for the follow-up. Same to the throat, but stiffer, puts pressure on the windpipe or a multitude of the arteries and veins that supply blood to the brain.
It's hard to hit an eye or the throat with a fist, and those are 2 excellent targets if it needs to be quick and dirty. Most people keep their chin down a bit when fighting, and fitting a fist in there is darn near impossible. The fingers, blade of the hand, or leopard paw make more sense because they fit in smaller places.
Heck, I don't even punch to face much anymore. Mostly 'power-palms'. They work extremely well as a preemptive and you can generate a god-forsaken load of power with it.
Knife hands to the side of the neck make more sense because the angle of a strike with the fist is drastic. It's a subversive technique, and effective in traumatizing the nerves and blood vessels of such a target. The force is more localized with means greater pressure on specific structures instead of the structure as a whole.
There are lots of different hand positions because there are lots of different targets that react differently to different forces.
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1060
Location: Lost on the West Coast
Styles: Ronin Judoka
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| MizuRyu wrote: |
Just as you don't use a hammer on a screw, you don't use a fist for all situations. Fingertip strikes (biu tze) are useful for the eyes and throat in my experience. Keeping the fingers somewhat relaxed and thrusting them towards the eyeline is BOUND to contact an eye, which is enough to stun an opponent for the follow-up. Same to the throat, but stiffer, puts pressure on the windpipe or a multitude of the arteries and veins that supply blood to the brain.
It's hard to hit an eye or the throat with a fist, and those are 2 excellent targets if it needs to be quick and dirty. Most people keep their chin down a bit when fighting, and fitting a fist in there is darn near impossible. The fingers, blade of the hand, or leopard paw make more sense because they fit in smaller places.
Heck, I don't even punch to face much anymore. Mostly 'power-palms'. They work extremely well as a preemptive and you can generate a god-forsaken load of power with it.
Knife hands to the side of the neck make more sense because the angle of a strike with the fist is drastic. It's a subversive technique, and effective in traumatizing the nerves and blood vessels of such a target. The force is more localized with means greater pressure on specific structures instead of the structure as a whole.
There are lots of different hand positions because there are lots of different targets that react differently to different forces. |
Gotcha MizuRyu! Thanks for the input....I guess I am still not all that comfortable with palms but I appreciate the examples. Perhaps I should try them sometime?
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Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
~Theodore Roosevelt |
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on the post.
