Foundational Training

Johnlogic121 · Orange Belt

Suppose that someone interested in the martial arts prepares for years of study in a variety of arts similiar to the theory espoused by those who practice Jeet Kune Do. People say that in a desparate situation you can regress mentally back to the earliest "core" of your training regimen. In other words, if you have been training for a year and find yourself in a fight with your back really against the wall, you might start to instinctively rely on the things you learned in the first eight weeks. Some Kung Fu programs deliberately structure their teachings around this concept, having you do things like a "lower arm crane hook" where you temporarily catch a blow to the lower abdomen and trap it thousands of times before you work on a short arm wrist twist technique that would be one step more advanced. When you are stressed to the max, you would tend to go for the simpler basic technique rather than the advanced form. Considering this principle as true, what would be the best foundational training for a combat ready martial artist before moving on to other styles? Should you do grappling for the first three years before doing striking, or would a base exposure to striking be preferred? Jigoro Kano, the founder of Judo, felt that a certain degree of mastery of Judo throwing techniques was a prerequisite to groundfighting grappling, becuase too much groundfighting early on meant that throwing would probably never be mastered due to a kind of mental block. What do you guys think if the best foundational training for the first three years of a ten year long martial arts training program? Thanks, -johnlogic121.
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First Grandmaster - Montgomery Style Karate; 12 year Practitioner - Bujinkan Style Ninjutsu; Isshinryu, Judo, Mang Chaun Kung Fu, Kempo

Throwdown0850 · Blue Belt

for a foundation, probably boxing or, karate... you know, punches and kicks, stuff like that. then move on into the grapping (Judo, Jujutsu)... and I agree on the judo thing, thats why there is so much emphasis on the throws, than the mat work..

ying&yang · Purple Belt

Yes a kicking and punching style are always good basis
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I think that there is no 1 style , and that to truly become a great martial artist and person you must take information from where ever you can.

cross · Black Belt

Bushido-Ruach · Yellow Belt

I would say (and teach) that the most basic skill to practice would be stop-hit blocks...this is why.

First, above all else, you DON'T want to get hit if you can avoid it. Every time you get hit, it takes away strength, the ability to generate power, and drops your stamina a little. AVOID GETTING HIT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

Second, most blocks that I have seen utilized by people don't hurt the opponent at all, they simply block the on-coming fist and that's all. A stop-hit blocking technique is simply a "block" that causes the attacker great pain...a back knuckle block to the outside or inside of the forearm...a blocking "chop" to the same....causes enough pain that the attacker will probably stop punching at you after the second time he got his arm hurt while trying to punch you.

We practice stop-hit blocks beginning from white belt as our foremost and preferred blocking techniques...and we practice them often to drill them into second-hand instinct (like blinking your eyes when someone raises their hand to your face super fast).

Yep....stop-hit blocks....so named because after being "blocked" a couple of time, you want to stop hitting (or trying to hit) the guy whose causing you all this pain!!!
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tallgeese · Blue Belt

I agree that you'll probibly revert back to the most easily executable movments that you know during conflict, they are probibly the ones you've drilled the most and therefore have incurred the most muscle memory of.

I think this thread has the potential to be very intersting and informative. I hope it's kept alive a while by new posters. To that end, here's my theory...

I go with the well rounded foundational approach. Stuff shouldn't have to be fancy at this level (if ever) and it should work. Period. With a minimal of fiddling.

Movement, both on the ground and on the feet is key. This is the basis for every thing else to come, and often your best access to an escape route.

Attack and defense combos that integrate well together. Something easily useable from a variety of attacks and angles with a minimum of change on your part. Cover eye gouges, groins kicks, ect often.

I think also that within the first three years, an introduction to weapons defense should be made. When possible, these should mimic movments done without the weapons so the body learns to do them more instinctively.

And sparring...lots of sparring...and then spar some more. Remember, you don't just need to spar for sparring sake. Really take the time to work on things. Do your self defense movments from a sparring mindset. Set up sparring drills to train those specific movments and attack/defense combos I mentioned ealier.

Yes, it's a bit of a cross-training mindset. But one that will produce a fighter capable of defending himself in multiple situaions very quickly.

Adonis · Pre-Black Belt

Its often said that when adrenline comes in that fine motor skills are the fist to go, that the person will end up relying more on Gross motor Skills.

tallgeese · Blue Belt

This is true, fine motor skills decrease with an increase of heart rate that goes with an adriniline dump. Gross motor skills improve up to a point. Once you hit panic mode or "condition black" all performance starts to decrease. That's why realistic simulations to acclimitize the body to the effects of the adrenal dump is important. The more comfortable one is with violence, the less it will cause the heart rate to increase and the longer one will be able to access full gross and fine motor skills.

Some studies do suggest that the more engraned fine motor skills are, the more likey one will be able to perform them under stress at a high heart rate. So, rep those that you plan on using to death, make them second nature and increase your odds of being able to perfom them under duress. Again, regualr exposure to realistic fight simulations in key for this type of "stress innoculation" training.

bushido_man96 · KF Sensei

Our DT guy from the academy has a saying: "you'll do what you've done, not what you'll think you'll do." With that in mind, take what you have done, and get rep-happy with it. Also, make sure you can apply it from various scenarios. This where you find the true usefulness of a technique.

As far as a base style goes, I think it really just depends on what you like and what you gravitate towards. I am not a Wrestler, so I don't gravitate to it. Therefore, I do striking more. Now, I do want to get into some grappling, because I now feel more confident in my ability to pick up on the concepts. Has striking helped that? Maybe, but I can't be sure. I just know that I don't naturally gravitate toward ground fighting.
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