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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:27 am    Post subject: Frustrated Instructor Reply with quote

My Sensei shared this post on facebook today , Does anyone face the same problem & how do you deal with it ?!

" It amazes me in Australia that when life gets busy the first activity that people give up is the discipline. The one activity that helps children develop great working ethics, helps them to create the 'never give up' attitude, the one that teaches them to push through anything. Why is that?
Yes my expectations of our students are high. Have you not got it in you to push through?
I know for a fact our dojo is NOT expensive for the outstanding service that we provide.
No I won't grade a student every month, every 2 months or even every 3 - 6 months either. Just because you pay monthly fees does not mean you get to grade every couple of months like other clubs in our area.
If you want a black belt in 2 years, I know a few clubs in our area who can accommodate you for that.
You have to EARN the right to grade in our dojo, in Kyokushin in general and paying fees is for our teaching services not to grade.
Your entry to grade is the consistency of effort, your knowledge and your performances on grade requirements and the attendance record you put in to YOUR TRAINING.
Just because you pay for your training fee each month does NOT mean you get grade more regularly. Every grade requirement is required for every grade you attempt.
If you do not perform techniques properly and with absolute urgency, perform to the best of ability or know your syllabus knowledge then you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself, are YOU doing everything that is required for YOUR next grade?
I know I teach everything properly, so you can forget about blaming myself or my dojo for your failings.
It surprises me even after years of attendance people still DO NOT understand what the Kyokushin Martial Art is all about.
THIS IS KYOKUSHIN!!!!!
STOP COMPLAINING, STOP FINDING EXCUSES AND GET TO WORK. "

N.B : I totally agree to her point of view but would like to know your opinion about that problem & how different instructors deal with it !
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"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 1464
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a karate teacher, but I am a school teacher. I can emphasize with the frustration.

Kids aren't made to work and earn it like my generation was. When they put in what is ridiculously considered an effort and don't win/get what they wanted, it's always someone else's fault - the teacher, classmates, the principal, the entire system, medical reasons, etc. It's NEVER the kid's fault NOR the parents' fault. I'm 40, so it's not like I'm talking about so long ago. I teach in a private school where parents pay tuition. You'd think the parents would push harder because they're paying for something they could get for free, but it's just not true.

The problem isn't the children, it's the parents. In karate, they think they want to instill in their children those things the posters say - hard work, focus, discipline, etc. Nonsense. When push comes to shove, they want their kids handed a belt. The belt is nothing more than a trophy to show off. They want their kids to have a black belt; being a black belt and wearing one aren't one in the same.

Furthermore, parents somehow forgot how to tell their kids a very simple word - no. And then when someone else tells them no or that they can't do something or they won't be allowed something, they genuinely can't handle it. And neither can the parents.

At the beginning of the year, I tell my students the following...
I don't give grades. You earn your grades. I've never failed a student. Students have however failed. Too many students and unfortunately parents think if a student isn't doing well, it's the teacher's fault. The only way I can possibly fail a student is if the student does everything I've asked and still fails. If you're here just taking up space, if you don't do your homework, if you don't study for a test, who's to blame? Who failed who?

It's the same thing the sensei posted.

I wouldn't post all of that one Facebook even if I could. But I also have an advantage over that sensei - I regularly email parents about missed work and grades, so their child's grade is no surprise. And I have a grade book (and it's also online) so they can't question the average. That doesn't stop them from complaining, but it definitely helps me justify the grade my students EARN.

Edit - I forgot to mention something in my rant...

At my school, parents are fully explained the rules. They're told the rules verbally, and sign papers saying they understand and will abide by them. Same for the students. The parents think it's a wonderful thing. Then their kids don't follow them. And they don't. Then they think the rules are meant for everyone else and their kid should be the exception.

Same as the dojo - they're told the policies on attendance, grading, etc. and they think it's the best thing since sliced bread. Things go great for a few months and everything's going their way. Then things get difficult or the kid (and the parents) start to slack off a bit. Then, the rules suck. They paid their money and should dictate the rules. The rules are great for everyone else, but their kid has special circumstances and shouldn't be held back for it. It's not their fault they only showed up once every two weeks - it's soccer season. They should still be promoted anyway. My student missed 30 days of school because his family decided to go on vacation for almost a month, twice. So what if the school policy they signed says if they miss more than 20 days without a medical excuse that they'll be held back. That's for everyone else, not my kid.

Sound familiar?
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MatsuShinshii
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 460
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu Rokudan 1979 to Present, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can explain this phenomenon in three words; Fast food mentality.

Kids today have an instant gratification expectation in all things they do. All information is at their fingers by surfing the web where we used to read books. Some schools have identified this and have added belts or just promote quicker to keep their students engaged.

I do not teach kids but my wife is a school teacher and complains every day about this. She calls it the entitlement syndrome. She says that parents no longer force their children to earn things and defend them when someone tries to force them to earn their achievements.

I coached my kids sports teams for a few years and saw this first hand with "everyone gets a trophy" or "we don't keep score so there are no hard feelings".

If your students have to earn something and it takes any amount of time and effort on their part most just quit and worse their parents let them and support this behavior.

In my day if you joined a team or individual sport you didn't get to quit. Your father would tell you that he didn't raise quitter's. I was often looked at as the mean parent because I actually had expectations of my kids and made them earn what they had. I didn't buy them cars, they worked and saved money to buy their own. I had a job at the age of 10 (mowing lawns, raking leaves and shoveling snow) and actually went to work full time at the age of 15 with parents consent and worked part time during the school year and bought my first car in cash. My kids didn't start out quit so young because their mother had a different experience but at 14 they all were working and yep, they all bought their own cars, they didn't loose a job and they did not drop out of college. Imagine that!

Funny thing is my kids are successful and most of their friends still live with there parents. My kids thank me for being hard on them as I thank my father for being hard on me.

Building character and discipline in not in today's vocabulary.

I qualify my students (adults 16 and up) before allowing them to fully join my school. The main thing I look for is a quitter attitude or an entitled behavior. If they show signs of these and other faulty personality traits I simply tell them they are not a good fit and show them the door. I can say that 70% of the millennium generation that darkens my Dojo doors have these traits. Very few students under the age of 20 make it past the first week. They either quit or complain until I show them the door.

As for what to do about it if your income relies upon kids classes... work on the parents. I feel for your Sensei but unfortunately this is a learned behavior and the days of working for your achievements are over. EVERYONE GETS A TROPHY. We wouldn't want those that fall short to work harder so we degrade the achievements of those that put in the hard effort until everyone are looser's.

And yes I am quite opinionated when it comes to this subject. I watched this attitude in my kids friends and hear how their parents are heart broken because their kids dropped out of college or can't keep a job and are still living with them. I'm an empty nester and don't have those issues but I still have to deal with it in terms of work.

You can not imagine how many young men show up thinking they deserve to make "$X" and have no experience what so ever. Or those that don't want to work 40 hrs a week. The list of faulty personality traits go on and on. The problem is they are never called out for their laziness or their parents come to the rescue.

I couldn't even begin to tell you what the solution is because we would have to go back in time and knock some sense into their parents thick skulls. Best I can say is choose your students wisely. Vet them so to speak before allowing them to join and make sure of what your getting.

Or you could go the route of the McDojo's and just give them belts to keep them interested. As long as they feel a false sense of achievement they will keep coming back.

Of course I am joking and would hope no one here would encourage this type of behavior.
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MatsuShinshii
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 460
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu Rokudan 1979 to Present, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
I'm not a karate teacher, but I am a school teacher. I can emphasize with the frustration.

Kids aren't made to work and earn it like my generation was. When they put in what is ridiculously considered an effort and don't win/get what they wanted, it's always someone else's fault - the teacher, classmates, the principal, the entire system, medical reasons, etc. It's NEVER the kid's fault NOR the parents' fault. I'm 40, so it's not like I'm talking about so long ago. I teach in a private school where parents pay tuition. You'd think the parents would push harder because they're paying for something they could get for free, but it's just not true.

The problem isn't the children, it's the parents. In karate, they think they want to instill in their children those things the posters say - hard work, focus, discipline, etc. Nonsense. When push comes to shove, they want their kids handed a belt. The belt is nothing more than a trophy to show off. They want their kids to have a black belt; being a black belt and wearing one aren't one in the same.

Furthermore, parents somehow forgot how to tell their kids a very simple word - no. And then when someone else tells them no or that they can't do something or they won't be allowed something, they genuinely can't handle it. And neither can the parents.

At the beginning of the year, I tell my students the following...
I don't give grades. You earn your grades. I've never failed a student. Students have however failed. Too many students and unfortunately parents think if a student isn't doing well, it's the teacher's fault. The only way I can possibly fail a student is if the student does everything I've asked and still fails. If you're here just taking up space, if you don't do your homework, if you don't study for a test, who's to blame? Who failed who?

It's the same thing the sensei posted.

I wouldn't post all of that one Facebook even if I could. But I also have an advantage over that sensei - I regularly email parents about missed work and grades, so their child's grade is no surprise. And I have a grade book (and it's also online) so they can't question the average. That doesn't stop them from complaining, but it definitely helps me justify the grade my students EARN.

Edit - I forgot to mention something in my rant...

At my school, parents are fully explained the rules. They're told the rules verbally, and sign papers saying they understand and will abide by them. Same for the students. The parents think it's a wonderful thing. Then their kids don't follow them. And they don't. Then they think the rules are meant for everyone else and their kid should be the exception.

Same as the dojo - they're told the policies on attendance, grading, etc. and they think it's the best thing since sliced bread. Things go great for a few months and everything's going their way. Then things get difficult or the kid (and the parents) start to slack off a bit. Then, the rules suck. They paid their money and should dictate the rules. The rules are great for everyone else, but their kid has special circumstances and shouldn't be held back for it. It's not their fault they only showed up once every two weeks - it's soccer season. They should still be promoted anyway. My student missed 30 days of school because his family decided to go on vacation for almost a month, twice. So what if the school policy they signed says if they miss more than 20 days without a medical excuse that they'll be held back. That's for everyone else, not my kid.

Sound familiar?


Just read your post and I have to say it's spot on!
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12576
Location: Owasso, OK
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me just say this, for now, and possibly, I might add some more concrete thoughts...

You want it?? THEN EARN IT!! Don't want to earn it?? Then get off my floor!! This goes to the student(s) and/or the parent(s)/guardian(s) and/or whomever...

I run the floor...NOT YOU!! Don't assume anything on my floor, and this includes a position that you do not possess; not now, and not ever!!

EARN IT...HUSH...TRAIN!! That's all I require of anyone on and off the floor!! You came to ME, I didn't come to you, for training in Shindokan Saitou-ryu!!



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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1288

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Real life where people have to work for their situation and where personal choices have consequences is made up of "hard feelings" it is best to get used to that while one is young and adaptable.

Unfortunately the "I want it right l, now and everyone is a winner" mentality is more widespread than rewards based on merit and effort. It is no surprise that people expect martial arts schools to function that way when that is how things are done in the regular education system.

Not very long ago, it was normal to be held back a grade at school. There was something called cut-off grades below which one would fail. Now everyone has to pass, no child(or immature, lazy adult) left behind.

This is the type of student who will throw a tantrum when they don't get a new colourful belt or trophy just be the they showed up. Or the parent who threatens to sue or demands a reward for something their child did nothing to earn or deserve and cannot stand to have their "feelings" shaken a bit. These types need a good shock wake up. Unfortunately for some, the wake up part never happens
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
I can explain this phenomenon in three words; Fast food mentality.



Very true, totally agree
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"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
I run the floor...NOT YOU!! Don't assume anything on my floor, and this includes a position that you do not possess; not now, and not ever!!




That's exactly what people has to understand & that's I guess is the main reason for frustration !
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"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
The problem isn't the children, it's the parents. In karate, they think they want to instill in their children those things the posters say - hard work, focus, discipline, etc. Nonsense. When push comes to shove, they want their kids handed a belt. The belt is nothing more than a trophy to show off. They want their kids to have a black belt; being a black belt and wearing one aren't one in the same.


Yes, that's true but sometimes belt is also sort of motivation for young kids to keep training !
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"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
This is the type of student who will throw a tantrum when they don't get a new colourful belt or trophy just be the they showed up. Or the parent who threatens to sue or demands a reward for something their child did nothing to earn or deserve and cannot stand to have their "feelings" shaken a bit. These types need a good shock wake up. Unfortunately for some, the wake up part never happens



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Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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