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Aces Red
Yellow Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 49
Styles: Ryukyu Kempo (Orange Belt), Thai-Ju-Jitsu (Unranked), Tang Soo Do (Yellow)
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 Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: Good All Around Styles |
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I was wondering which styles have a good balance between striking, kicking, kneeing, elbows and grappling? I was thinking Ninjutsu, but I'm not sure. And by the way what does Ninjutsu mean anyway? I heard from one of my counclers that this style sets your oppponent up for a grapple later in the fight or sparring match, just wondering of course. I also hear that french foot fighting is great for blocking techniques as you block with your feet and hit with your fists. Now I know no style is perfect, but are some balanced styles out there?
(Excuse my English Spelling I don't have Word)
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People are bound not by limitation, but rather by the barriers of their imagination~~ Paul White-- 2004 |
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BMW
Yellow Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 27
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: Good All Around Styles |
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| Aces Red wrote: |
| I was wondering which styles have a good balance between striking, kicking, kneeing, elbows and grappling? I was thinking Ninjutsu, but I'm not sure. And by the way what does Ninjutsu mean anyway? I heard from one of my counclers that this style sets your oppponent up for a grapple later in the fight or sparring match, just wondering of course. I also hear that french foot fighting is great for blocking techniques as you block with your feet and hit with your fists. |
I spent about a year in the Genbukan branch of Ninpo (basically "Ninjitsu") when I was a senior in high school. I ended up going into the military so that was that.
Ninjitsu is very Chinese in its fluent mannerisms. In my opinion it is a good art. However, it has some draw backs. The way they punch in Ninjitsu being one of biggest flaws. The Ichi Munji (forgive my spelling because I know I butchered it) stance, though over a thousand years old I believe, is probably better than the archaic stance western boxers of the John L. Sullivan days stood in. Nonetheless, punching like that today, even standing like that today will not work even against the most feeble "street fighter." But that's what you get when you place tradition over practicality or adapting to evolved or improved modern "game."
The grappling in Ninpo falls under the Tai Jitsu training. I personally think one can make its style of body mechanics work in a real fight to the death.
Ninpo has a form of low crawl that is superior to what modern militaries use. The problem is it burns to much calories (energy) and would require person train doing it for probably a year or more.
The sword training is good, the way they fight with knives I don't care for, the way Ninpo fights with the short stick is decent (not great not bad) but falls short of the practicality and effectiveness of Escrima.
There is a lot of "politics" running around in Ninpo right now. I'm not entirely pleased with everything going on in the Genbukan. But I will say this, the Genbukan offers classes in Jujutsu too, and their school of Jujutsu is decent - worthwhile. The Bujukan has some questionable politics going on too in my opinion. I don't know much of anything about the other major branch of Ninpo.
Ninpo currently markets itself toward a target population star dazzled, by the shadowy image of the infamous "Ninja" and the allure of "secrets."
I feel confident in saying that if you train in Ninpo for a year... say about 2 times a week for about 2 or 3 hours each of those two days... you will not improve one lick as a fighter. Two or three years? Yeah, I would think you would improve. I bring this up because it depends on what goals you are looking for in any particular time frame.
If you want to find immediate improvement in a years time, as a fighter, I would not suggest going the route of Aikido or Ninpo. I would suggest you take up either boxing, Thai boxing, or submission wrestling. You can train about 3 to 4 times a week in boxing and improve your fight game against the most aggressive street attacker in years flat time. But boxing is very limited.
| Quote: |
Now I know no style is perfect, but are some balanced styles out there?
(Excuse my English Spelling I don't have Word) |
I've entered training under the JKD system. Actually JKD is more a philosophy. I find it very excellent and very balanced (primarily because of the arts taught art my school and my Sifu - as well as fellow students). |
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Kajukenbopr
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 922
Styles: Kajukenbo - Emperado Method
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Kajukenbo Self Defense-
it has Karate(kicks), Judo(holds and strangulation), Jujitsu(joint manipulations and throws), Kenpo(the base of the art-fast paced strikes), and Chinese Boxing(easier flow of techniques, as well as some hand/finger training) - in weapons we use the escrima(or eskrima) and the knife.
Unofficially, it also has some boxing, other weapons, and some taichi concepts.
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<<Kajukenbopr>> Be humble, train hard, fight dirty |
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PSBN Doug
KF VIP
Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 3754
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Kuk Sool Won
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Kuk Sool Won is also a very comprehensive system.
Striking with hands, feet, elbows, knees, head, etc.
Joint locks, breaks, throws (grappling)
Pressure points
Falling, acrobatics
Weapons - staff (long, middle, short, rope), sword (middle, double-short, double-long) cane, rope, etc., etc.
The only area it's light in is ground work. We've begun working on it more in teh upper belt level, but there's so much material to learn in the beginning, they may be trying to balance it all.
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Kuk Sool Won - 3rd dan
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12833
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Muay Thai has a heavy emphasis on elbows and knees. Also, MMA gyms usually cover the clinch fighting range, with elbows and knees, and they will usually cover grappling as well.
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Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 987
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:45 am Post subject: |
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For all around, I'd recommend JKD or an MMA gym. As for ninjitsu...there really isn't such thing. The word Ninja wasn't created until the Edo or Tokugawa period, which was after Japan's long feudal wars between competing daimyo trying to control various parts of japan. This would have been the time that ninja would have been used, however we can find little mention of them. It isn't until after the warring states period that it became popular to feature 'ninja' in books and pop culture as a sort of super secret shadow warrior, and it is from that fictional character plus kabuki stagehand clothing design that we get the ninja of today. If you look at wikipeidia articles, etc, many times you will find claims of an earlier origin of ninjas/ a more detailed history. However if you look at the sources of these claims, all the books that they are taken from are written by those who already claim to know ninjitsu, such as Hayes, Hatsumi, etc., and thus are not written by historians or any reliable source. To this day, no school of ninjitsu has been able to proof itself to a panel of scholars, martial artists, and historians as being Koryū, or a per-meji era school, and in the martial arts community of japan, 'Ninjitsu' is not thought of very highly (least ways, not nearly as popular as it is in the west).
...Sorry for the long spiel, I've been meaning to do an in depth look at who the ninja actually were/ weren't but I keep putting it off.
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Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
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Kajukenbopr
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 922
Styles: Kajukenbo - Emperado Method
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| NightOwl wrote: |
For all around, I'd recommend JKD or an MMA gym. As for ninjitsu...there really isn't such thing. The word Ninja wasn't created until the Edo or Tokugawa period, which was after Japan's long feudal wars between competing daimyo trying to control various parts of japan. This would have been the time that ninja would have been used, however we can find little mention of them. It isn't until after the warring states period that it became popular to feature 'ninja' in books and pop culture as a sort of super secret shadow warrior, and it is from that fictional character plus kabuki stagehand clothing design that we get the ninja of today. If you look at wikipeidia articles, etc, many times you will find claims of an earlier origin of ninjas/ a more detailed history. However if you look at the sources of these claims, all the books that they are taken from are written by those who already claim to know ninjitsu, such as Hayes, Hatsumi, etc., and thus are not written by historians or any reliable source. To this day, no school of ninjitsu has been able to proof itself to a panel of scholars, martial artists, and historians as being Koryū, or a per-meji era school, and in the martial arts community of japan, 'Ninjitsu' is not thought of very highly (least ways, not nearly as popular as it is in the west).
...Sorry for the long spiel, I've been meaning to do an in depth look at who the ninja actually were/ weren't but I keep putting it off. |
http://www.iganinja.jp/
they claim to be authentic, so much so that the goverment is sponsoring a program for people to learn to become ninjas with one BIG catch ( no one must ever know if you graduate this ninja school.
Not just teaching fighting, they actually teach esoteric, military, strategy, explosive, acupuncture, diet, exercises, and many other ninja arts.
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<<Kajukenbopr>> Be humble, train hard, fight dirty |
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 987
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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This isn't really the place for a debate on ninja but... where are such claims? I couldn't find it on the site although there were more pages and links on ninjitsu on the Japanese site which I might go over later if I have the time. I am familiar however, with the Iga region and its claims, as well as those of the Koga (and have visited their sites for their ninja museums). Now there is what you could call 'Ninjitsu' in some of the koryu schools. This would include military strategy, stealth tactics, etc. However usually these are only taught to a select few students and even most instructors wouldn't know them. Also you have to keep in mind that-
A: The students were originally samurai, in fact there is no record of someone being assassinated by ninja. There are however, numerous occasions of samurai assassinating other samurai and performing the role of a spy.
B: The usefulness of such methods would have to be called into question. Sure, I could learn about how to mix certain herbs to create a secret potion to relive pain...or I could buy Advil for $5 at the store.
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Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
~Theodore Roosevelt |
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Montana
Orange Belt
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 189
Location: Formerly Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Just about any Okinawan Karate system (Shorin Ryu, Goju Ryu, Issinryu, etc) would be a good all around system.
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If you don't want to stand behind our troops, please..feel free to stand in front of them. |
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Kajukenbopr
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 922
Styles: Kajukenbo - Emperado Method
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| NightOwl wrote: |
This isn't really the place for a debate on ninja but... where are such claims? I couldn't find it on the site although there were more pages and links on ninjitsu on the Japanese site which I might go over later if I have the time. I am familiar however, with the Iga region and its claims, as well as those of the Koga (and have visited their sites for their ninja museums). Now there is what you could call 'Ninjitsu' in some of the koryu schools. This would include military strategy, stealth tactics, etc. However usually these are only taught to a select few students and even most instructors wouldn't know them. Also you have to keep in mind that-
A: The students were originally samurai, in fact there is no record of someone being assassinated by ninja. There are however, numerous occasions of samurai assassinating other samurai and performing the role of a spy.
B: The usefulness of such methods would have to be called into question. Sure, I could learn about how to mix certain herbs to create a secret potion to relive pain...or I could buy Advil for $5 at the store. |
I am not discussing whether it was true or not, however, most of their training is based on Japanese Jujitsu, before the MMA, jujitsu was the most complete traditional martial art -according to some-.
Even if that was not accurate, you dont really need every type of striking, grappling and or internal arts to be effective for self defense or fighting. Also, their physical training would already give them a good advantage over the average man.
I dont think if ninjas really did exist they would advertice their killings, they probably did little more than spy, sabotage and manipulate rivalries between warlords.
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<<Kajukenbopr>> Be humble, train hard, fight dirty |
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on the post.
