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tdiedwards
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:22 pm    Post subject: Ground fighting in Silat? Reply with quote

Hi,

Has anyone had any experience learning ground fighting techniques in Silat?

Was it different to other ground fighting systems? Did you think it was effective?

I've never seen any Silat ground fighting but I've heard about it. I once saw my ex Silat instructor just finishing giving a demo to a student while we waited for the class to start. It looked like the instructor had the student all tied up using just his legs. Very sweet. Is there a reason there isn't more talk about Silat given the profile of ground fighting in MMA?

Maybe there's something in the system that makes it unsuitable for those competitions?

Thanks,
Tim
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject: Ground fighting in Silat. Reply with quote

I didn't realize there was ground fighting in Silat either. Very cool. It seems to me that Silat must be a very complete and very good system. I believe it is a Filipino system, if I am not mistaken. For some odd reason, I really like to study the history, techniques, and philosophie of the Filipino systems.
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UseoForce
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The groundfighting/grappling is pretty slick. It certainly has its own flavor. A lot of the locks, etc are similar to what you see in hapkido and jiu-jitsu, though.

I don't think it is that suitable for MMA; It is more self-defense oriented and has a lot of "foul" techniques.
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tdiedwards
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is Silat in the Filipines, but the word originates from indonesia and most silat styles/ schools (there are hundreds) are indonesian.

In terms of lineage, many indonesian schools claim it to be indigenous to indonesia, but i think there's a lot of chinese influence. several techniques are the same as kung fu. the ethnicity of most of the country is has been influenced by chinese blood since about 3000BC, and the language itself bares the same hallmarks.

the indonesian word Tahu = have knowledge

No coincidence that it sounds like Tao, Dao, Do, Te, and all the other variations we see in names of martial arts.

I think it can be a slick style, but Silat competitions don't allow grappling and don't encourage much variety of technique. Although throws occur the fights are mainly side kicking competitions, and quite boring to watch. The scoring system is a bit daft as you score more for landing a kick than a punch...and it's much more difficult to get inside with a punch so you hardly ever see any variety of technique.

On the other hand, in training we learned an enormous variety of technique.....most of which seemed completely impractical. Hard to tell as the applications weren't often explained! Too much emphasis on exotic kata and cool looking spiderman stances and not enough gritty fight training, in my opinion. Still it was good for getting in shape, except for dehydration as training took place outside in the tropical heat and we were forbidden from drinking water. As a sweaty westerner that really made concentrating hard!

I think the best Silat teachers are probably teaching outside of indonesia. Seems to be popular in Holland, and the States.

If anyone knows of a silat school in birmingham, UK i would be interested in returning to this style.

Regards,
Tim
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UseoForce
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its funny you say that, because Silat has a reoutation as an extremely effective fighting style. There are probably many different varieties of Silat.
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tdiedwards
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it does have that reputation. It has lots of reputations. It also has a reputation, in it's country or origin, as being an art that used black magic! Not so long ago they used to check competators clothes to make sure they weren't carrying any yellow rice - which would empower them. Also, tatoos on the bottoms of the feet which summon the energy of djinis was banned. I think the good repuation Silat has comes from the teaching that takes place ni the West.

About the effectiveness of Silat - my point wasn't that Silat isn't effective, only that Silat competitions don't do much to encourage techniques beyong roundhouse and side kicks. Also that much of the training done in Inondesia is concerned with the aeshetics of that particular Silat school, of which students are very proud.

Incidentally, it looks like Hari Mau is one of the silat styles that deals with ground fighting if you're interested.
Cheers,
tim
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tdiedwards
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.....sorry. i meant USES black magic. not USED. Many (even most) Silat schools in indonesia teach what i would politely describe as metaphysical martial art theory!
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UseoForce
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a DVD, "Kali Silat Entries and Takedowns," where Ron Balicki shows Filipino trapping, a takedown, then some ground grappling for a finish. If there was a school around here, I'd have to try it.

Anyway, good DVD if you're interested.

BTW, Ron notes that some styles of Silat (probably in the West, like you said) even teach firearms usgae. I think that should a component of any art that markets itself as "self defense."
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tdiedwards
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the DVD tip. Sounds perfect. I will see if I can find it.

RE firearms. Yeh, I've read about that too. Seems like those styles would be very pragmatic. I've also read about Silat styles which include biting in their style I guess it's something anyone would do if you had too, but I've never heard of it being part of formal martial arts training. I'd like to watch a competition where no punches or kicks were permitted. Only biting.
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UseoForce
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol, any art that teaches biting is OK by me!
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