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Ajay
White Belt
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Please note that my previous post is ONE possible explanation of these movements in Heian Godan. No doubt there are many people on this forum with different bunkai.
Ajay |
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armanox
Orange Belt
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Styles: Shorin (Kobayashi) Ryu Karatedo, Aikikai Aikido
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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I never understood why some styles have a jump there either. I never questioned it, I assume it serves a purpose. In Koybayashi Ryu we have a throw in that place (view kata below)
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Ajay
White Belt
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Hi Armanox,
I suppose in a way, these movements are very similar to the movement in Heian Nidan (without the jump) where you have stepped forward and made an augmented block (Tsukami Uke?) then you have moved the back leg round anti clockwise to make a left Gedan Barai. I have seen this particular movement taught as a block to an incoming middle level punch and then, without a counter to follow the block, turn away to face another opponent. While I suppose there is some measure of merit in this theory, I am not comfortable with it myself and much prefer the blocking/trapping turning hip throw application which as I said earlier, if you added a little jump, you would have a very similar move to those from Heian Godan.
Ajay |
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NewEnglands_KyoSa
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 907
Location: New England
Styles: Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do , Chinese Kempo
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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what i was told, and it makes good sense, is that the jump is symbolic of a flying side kick to an opponent who is a decent distance from you, but mid air you see the opponent is going to kick, and completley destroy you because of this flying side kick, so it gets switched to a long x block, in the cross stance. that is my understanding, and it makes sense in my two different forms pyung ahn oh dan and 5 pinan.
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granitemiller
Yellow Belt
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Pittsburgh
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: Heian go-dan jump |
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| In the Shotokan form we jump. |
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sensei8
Yellow Belt
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by sensei8 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zanshin
Purple Belt
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 530
Styles: Wado Ryu Karate, Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu, Ono-Ha Itto-Ryu Kenjutsu
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
you're then executing an X-block at an opponents kick.
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Why would you do that?... Although blocking a kick with both your arms is an option, it is a dangerous one.
Also, if you use both hands to stop one limb of an opponent, you are effectively tying up both hands, giving yourself nothing to block/parry a secondary technique that might follow on from a kick from an opponent. Basic Budo rule of thumb, try not to use two limbs against one as you instantly reduce your defensive options.
The technique in the kata may be representative of an X block against an opponents kick, but I would be reluctant to teach that as an reason for doing it.
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"The difference between the possible and impossible is one's will"
"saya no uchi de katsu" - Victory in the scabbbard of the sword. (One must obtain victory while the sword is undrawn).
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NewEnglands_KyoSa
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 907
Location: New England
Styles: Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do , Chinese Kempo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Zanshin wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
you're then executing an X-block at an opponents kick.
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Why would you do that?... Although blocking a kick with both your arms is an option, it is a dangerous one.
Also, if you use both hands to stop one limb of an opponent, you are effectively tying up both hands, giving yourself nothing to block/parry a secondary technique that might follow on from a kick from an opponent. Basic Budo rule of thumb, try not to use two limbs against one as you instantly reduce your defensive options.
The technique in the kata may be representative of an X block against an opponents kick, but I would be reluctant to teach that as an reason for doing it. |
this is true but afterwards is an immediate throw(often represented by a two hand block, stupid, i know) so now its applicable because even though its two against one, they soon have nothing because they become horizontal.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13452
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Zanshin wrote: |
| The technique in the kata may be representative of an X block against an opponents kick, but I would be reluctant to teach that as an reason for doing it. |
I haven't looked back in a while, but what would the move represent, in your eyes, Zanshin?
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Zanshin
Purple Belt
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 530
Styles: Wado Ryu Karate, Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu, Ono-Ha Itto-Ryu Kenjutsu
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Zanshin wrote: |
| The technique in the kata may be representative of an X block against an opponents kick, but I would be reluctant to teach that as an reason for doing it. |
I haven't looked back in a while, but what would the move represent, in your eyes, Zanshin? |
Hmm... I think that X blocks in general could represent numerous techniques. Maybe it is better to look at it is practice for co-ordination of two techniques at the same time for example:-
1. The moving down / pressing of an opponent's guard with one hand so that you can punch them over the top with the other. or...
2. The parrying of an opponent's kick to the side again freeing up the other hand strike.
But thats just a few off the top of my head and NewEnglands_KyoSas throw is another.
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"The difference between the possible and impossible is one's will"
"saya no uchi de katsu" - Victory in the scabbbard of the sword. (One must obtain victory while the sword is undrawn).
www.art-of-budo.com |
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on the post.
