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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:58 am    Post subject: How do you control the power ?! Reply with quote

I have another question for you guys & gals, In the dojo how do you practice different techniques / combinations with power but without hurting your partner?

When I train with a partner I am always super careful not to hurt him/her that's why I feel I can't apply power in my combinations and I think practicing without power is sort of useless specially in street situations.

I always see my sensei & sempais doing really powerfull techniques even if they are demonstrating with no partners or in katas and that's another thing that I still can't do !

I can use power only with punching pads or bags.

Thanks in adavance for any helpful hints or advice.
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"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1901

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I always see my sensei & sempais doing really powerfull techniques even if they are demonstrating with no partners or in katas and that's another thing that I still can't do !"

There lies an important part of the answer to the question.

One must consider that each individual person takes a different length of time before being able to do a technique correctly, consistently and with power without thinking about it. This is the mark of true mastery of all the physical mechanics involved in a skill, and usually takes considerable time.

A novice of a few years cannot expect to be able to do anything that an intermediate level person does only with the utmost effort and concentration, but not consistently.

Only when all the mechanics are assimilated and done without thinking is it possible to do a technique with the complete control required to avoid injuring a training partner when doing it with power.
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
"I always see my sensei & sempais doing really powerfull techniques even if they are demonstrating with no partners or in katas and that's another thing that I still can't do !"

There lies an important part of the answer to the question.

One must consider that each individual person takes a different length of time before being able to do a technique correctly, consistently and with power without thinking about it. This is the mark of true mastery of all the physical mechanics involved in a skill, and usually takes considerable time.

A novice of a few years cannot expect to be able to do anything that an intermediate level person does only with the utmost effort and concentration, but not consistently.

Only when all the mechanics are assimilated and done without thinking is it possible to do a technique with the complete control required to avoid injuring a training partner when doing it with power.


Thanks Spartacus , I totally agree with you. I was asking about how can I work on that currently and try to improve it in as long time as it takes !
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Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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DWx
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: How do you control the power ?! Reply with quote

Great question Safroot. This can really be answered in two parts:

Safroot wrote:
When I train with a partner I am always super careful not to hurt him/her that's why I feel I can't apply power in my combinations and I think practicing without power is sort of useless specially in street situations.

When people practice with a partner with power, what they are really doing is pulling their technique or just stopping short of their intended target. Remember strikes are meant to end behind the target and not at the target. So what you find when practising with heavy bags or pads, is that you make contact and and hit through. If you were to do the same in partner work you would be making contact and going through the target. So most practise to stop just short of actually making contact but full power in up until that point. You can't go round hitting people full force all the time so you have to reign it in and stop short of the target.

This is one of the reasons I advocate tameshiwari or board breaking. As it's a quantitative measure of how powerful your strikes are without anyone getting hurt.


Safroot wrote:
I always see my sensei & sempais doing really powerfull techniques even if they are demonstrating with no partners or in katas and that's another thing that I still can't do !

I can use power only with punching pads or bags.

Thanks in adavance for any helpful hints or advice.

Power on your own without a surface to strike is really a demonstration of equilibrium and stability. Power is just speed and acceleration (correct technique being a way to achieve this). Anyone can punch with speed and mass but techniques look powerful when this is done under control.

Consider this video of Rika Usami in the WKF kata finals 2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiiznDpoapQ

It looks powerful because the movements are crisp and sharp. Though she demonstrates speed and intent, its her ability to bring the strike to a dead stop without overbalancing or additional movement which makes it look powerful.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16386
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Dome!!

This is where two practitioners Kumite at full speed and power, however, said technique is arrested just a fraction of an inch from the selected target without making any contact with one another. Albeit, one practitioner might move faster, but the other practitioner might be more powerful. Nonetheless, with Sun Dome, the outcome might be difficult to determine whom might've defeated the other in the exchange of techniques.

Greg and I often took this application to the next level, and as our Dai-Soke was quite fond of saying about us two whenever we took Sun Dome to our own conclusion, "The thread of interpretation is thin and tattered with you two, but, refined!!"

In short, Greg and I literally tried to kill one another whenever we practiced Kumite together; Kumite resolved with intent!! To a novice observer, we were akin to that Bull in a China closet, however, to the experienced observer, we were akin to a tuning up orchestra that was refining their craft.

Very few engaged with us, even those with similar ranks, and we're Hachidan/Kudan, because it can be quite daunting to say the least, especially at first.

Yet, with the understanding and respect of Sun Dome, even in the assumed chaos we exhibited, safety wasn't taken lightly, therefore, things were learned by us each and every time we meet on the floor.

Sun Dome...the tool of learning and understanding in the midst of a hurricane!!




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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: How do you control the power ?! Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Great question Safroot. This can really be answered in two parts:

Safroot wrote:
When I train with a partner I am always super careful not to hurt him/her that's why I feel I can't apply power in my combinations and I think practicing without power is sort of useless specially in street situations.

When people practice with a partner with power, what they are really doing is pulling their technique or just stopping short of their intended target. Remember strikes are meant to end behind the target and not at the target. So what you find when practising with heavy bags or pads, is that you make contact and and hit through. If you were to do the same in partner work you would be making contact and going through the target. So most practise to stop just short of actually making contact but full power in up until that point. You can't go round hitting people full force all the time so you have to reign it in and stop short of the target.

This is one of the reasons I advocate tameshiwari or board breaking. As it's a quantitative measure of how powerful your strikes are without anyone getting hurt.


Safroot wrote:
I always see my sensei & sempais doing really powerfull techniques even if they are demonstrating with no partners or in katas and that's another thing that I still can't do !

I can use power only with punching pads or bags.

Thanks in adavance for any helpful hints or advice.

Power on your own without a surface to strike is really a demonstration of equilibrium and stability. Power is just speed and acceleration (correct technique being a way to achieve this). Anyone can punch with speed and mass but techniques look powerful when this is done under control.

Consider this video of Rika Usami in the WKF kata finals 2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiiznDpoapQ

It looks powerful because the movements are crisp and sharp. Though she demonstrates speed and intent, its her ability to bring the strike to a dead stop without overbalancing or additional movement which makes it look powerful.


Thanks DWx fo your advice & thanks for sharing that video
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"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Sun Dome!!

Sun Dome...the tool of learning and understanding in the midst of a hurricane!!





Doesn't sound easy at all
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"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30167
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is something that comes with time and work. Use one-step sparring to work on this, making sure you are far enough away to throw techniques with power and speed, and not make contact. As you get more comfortable, start closing the distance more and more. This will start to come together in sparring as well.

When you spar, don't think "slow," think "smooth." I say don't think "slow" because then you will be slow, and that's not ever good. But, there is a saying out there for training that goes "slow is smooth, and smooth is faster." I hope this makes some sense. Work on being smooth and getting the combinations to come together smoothly, and as you get more comfortable, they will speed up.
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2356
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: How do you control the power ?! Reply with quote

Safroot wrote:
I have another question for you guys & gals, In the dojo how do you practice different techniques / combinations with power but without hurting your partner?

When I train with a partner I am always super careful not to hurt him/her that's why I feel I can't apply power in my combinations and I think practicing without power is sort of useless specially in street situations.

I always see my sensei & sempais doing really powerfull techniques even if they are demonstrating with no partners or in katas and that's another thing that I still can't do !

I can use power only with punching pads or bags.

Thanks in adavance for any helpful hints or advice.


The Instructors normally are able to do that because of their experience and that they are aware and know how to make intent the driving force.

Applying it with people is a different story however, for you it is a mentality that you don't want to hurt them. Which I can completely understand, however what you can do is if the person you are working with can take a serious hit that go ahead. You partner should tell you want that is hard enough, and that you can also see that if you go any harder that you could cause damage.

I was always taught to adjust how much force I put into my technique dependent on the size of my opponent, their age (if training etc) and their physical build. For instance I can hit one of my best friends as hard as possible without problem (He wants me to hit even harder) and he is 20, whereas I wouldn't do the same thing to a 13 year old with the physical maturity of a 16 year old.
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
This is something that comes with time and work. Use one-step sparring to work on this, making sure you are far enough away to throw techniques with power and speed, and not make contact. As you get more comfortable, start closing the distance more and more. This will start to come together in sparring as well.

When you spar, don't think "slow," think "smooth." I say don't think "slow" because then you will be slow, and that's not ever good. But, there is a saying out there for training that goes "slow is smooth, and smooth is faster." I hope this makes some sense. Work on being smooth and getting the combinations to come together smoothly, and as you get more comfortable, they will speed up.


Great advice that I will work on for sure
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Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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