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How should a kata be performed?
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To its tempo, its natural speed. |
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22% |
[ 4 ] |
With speed to be the fastest in competion. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
Full kihon and full power |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
Full speed, kihon and power |
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27% |
[ 5 ] |
It should be as taught by the ancient masters. (Please describe) |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
Speed and power where that is the teaching of the kata. |
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16% |
[ 3 ] |
..other.. |
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22% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 18 |
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Message |
Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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 Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:48 am Post subject: How should a kata be performed? |
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From this thread:
http://karateforums.com/post499341.html#499341
Different views on kata and its performance came out.
the poll asked what you think?
In this thread can I ask why you think it?
Can you support your view with detail etc etc too?
I say in the other thread, that Kyokushin kata have a known time measurement, in this way to finish the kata the demonstrator of the kata is seen to have been fast where needed, shown power as required, to have committed to the kata and its teachings, to have executed the kata correctly.
To finish faster is to indicate a lack of power, or even to have missed a movement.
To finish slower is to shown you have been uncertain, hence slow and not understood the kata.
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2734
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I had to put "other" because, in my mind, there is no true "correct" pace for a kata, and even if there were, we are so far removed from the creators of the kata that we have no way of knowing what that pace was. In addition, I don't perform my kata at the same pace every time. Ideally, I think you have to make the kata fit you, individually.
Sometimes I do it at a metronomic pace, as I would if an instructor was counting. Other times, I let my body go through the kata naturally--whatever feels right, to me--which tends to be faster. Other times, I go slow and focus on flowing, or working with dynamic tension. Every now and then, I will even go through the kata as fast as I can without missing movements.
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Harkon72
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Kata is like a piece of music, everyone plays it differently. We all recognize the tune, but the way you interpret it is up to you; that is what makes it an Art.
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Look to the far mountain and see all. |
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Kusotare
Purple Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 574
Styles: Traditional Japanese Karate, Koryu Bujutsu (Jujutsu, Iaido and Kenjutsu)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Within clasical budo, the six priniples of Kata practice are as follows;
From - www.sannoya.com
Ikita Kata Kata should be alive and practiced with feeling and purpose.
Inen Kata should be practiced with spirit.
Chikara no Kyojaku During Kata practice there should be variation in the application of power. Technique may be strong or yielding, hard then soft.
Waza no Kankyu During Kata practice there should be variations in timing. Sometimes moving fast, sometimes moving slow.
Kisoku no Donto Kata should be practiced with the correct rhythm of breathing.
Balance Good balance should be maintained during the practice of Kata
K.
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Usque ad mortem bibendum! |
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 3025
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Kusotare wrote: |
Within clasical budo, the six priniples of Kata practice are as follows;
From - www.sannoya.com
Ikita Kata Kata should be alive and practiced with feeling and purpose.
Inen Kata should be practiced with spirit.
Chikara no Kyojaku During Kata practice there should be variation in the application of power. Technique may be strong or yielding, hard then soft.
Waza no Kankyu During Kata practice there should be variations in timing. Sometimes moving fast, sometimes moving slow.
Kisoku no Donto Kata should be practiced with the correct rhythm of breathing.
Balance Good balance should be maintained during the practice of Kata
Ditto
K. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Kusotare wrote: |
Within clasical budo, the six priniples of Kata practice are as follows;
From - www.sannoya.com
Ikita Kata Kata should be alive and practiced with feeling and purpose.
Inen Kata should be practiced with spirit.
Chikara no Kyojaku During Kata practice there should be variation in the application of power. Technique may be strong or yielding, hard then soft.
Waza no Kankyu During Kata practice there should be variations in timing. Sometimes moving fast, sometimes moving slow.
Kisoku no Donto Kata should be practiced with the correct rhythm of breathing.
Balance Good balance should be maintained during the practice of Kata
K. |
Solid post!! Kata should vary because true situations vary across the board.
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Kusotare wrote: |
Within clasical budo, the six priniples of Kata practice are as follows;
From - www.sannoya.com
Ikita Kata Kata should be alive and practiced with feeling and purpose.
Inen Kata should be practiced with spirit.
Chikara no Kyojaku During Kata practice there should be variation in the application of power. Technique may be strong or yielding, hard then soft.
Waza no Kankyu During Kata practice there should be variations in timing. Sometimes moving fast, sometimes moving slow.
Kisoku no Donto Kata should be practiced with the correct rhythm of breathing.
Balance Good balance should be maintained during the practice of Kata
K. |
So if this is to be considered the 'correct way' then this is to say 'its tempo', no?
That said, that means a kata no matter what one, who does or where it is done will be completed in about the same amount of time taken by the person also called 'tank' as it was by the guy named 'stick insect'?
Neither faster or slower than the last demonstration.
This is to say kata has a tempo, a spirit that is the kata as it was back inthe day it does not change?
At Open contents in the past,I've watched Shotokan kata and a kata called "tekki shodan" ..was done fast, a Shotokan friend explained that this was the point of this kata... speed ..... it was meant to be done as fast as possible!!
Yet another Niji Shiho was more sedate with certain focus on power so keeping a clear (even to me a low grade kyokushin student) rhythm and tempo.
One kata was to be done faster than the last guy, yet the other was being done and should finish at about the same time as the other guy!
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2359
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Personally i believe Kata should be performed how you think it should be done.
I have done Goju-Ryu Karate for the last 12 years and each student performs kata slightly differently for tempo/speed. Like for Gekasai Dai Ichi our green and purple belts (we start teaching them as green belts in preparation for their kata test with their purple belt). Their timing is different (mostly) to us black belts as we have insight of what the kata is doing if we were doing those techniques in real life |
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Shodan melbourne wrote: |
Personally i believe Kata should be performed how you think it should be done.
I have done Goju-Ryu Karate for the last 12 years and each student performs kata slightly differently for tempo/speed. Like for Gekasai Dai Ichi our green and purple belts (we start teaching them as green belts in preparation for their kata test with their purple belt). Their timing is different (mostly) to us black belts as we have insight of what the kata is doing if we were doing those techniques in real life |
With the post from 'Kusotare' in mind, when you say
| Shodan melbourne wrote: |
| '...us black belts..we have an insight of what the kata is doing....' |
Is this something I can take to show that the black belts if demonstrating this or that kata, would if all were blindfolded, If timed would all finish at about the same time'ish?
What I'm getting at here is I've said speed when that is the point of the kata, power if that is what is needed, and here you say:
| Shodan melbourne wrote: |
| "...we have insight of what the kata is doing if we were doing those techniques in real life..." |
Hence to me when you say this, the senior grades, because of the 'additional' knowledge of what, why how or why this is done are following the katas demands, fitting to its spirit...its tempo!
Shihan Liam keaveney http://www.bkk-uk.com/Profiles.asp has in various workshops talked at length about 'studying' kata.
Then in detail after asking us for what 'we' thing is or is not the point of this or that element, given direction to the true purpose of the element/kata as taught by Sosai Oyama and Hanshi Arneil.
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Kusotare
Purple Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 574
Styles: Traditional Japanese Karate, Koryu Bujutsu (Jujutsu, Iaido and Kenjutsu)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Hawkmoon wrote: |
What I'm getting at here is I've said speed when that is the point of the kata, power if that is what is needed, and here you say:
| Shodan melbourne wrote: |
| "...we have insight of what the kata is doing if we were doing those techniques in real life..." |
Hence to me when you say this, the senior grades, because of the 'additional' knowledge of what, why how or why this is done are following the katas demands, fitting to its spirit...its tempo!
Shihan Liam keaveney http://www.bkk-uk.com/Profiles.asp has in various workshops talked at length about 'studying' kata.
Then in detail after asking us for what 'we' thing is or is not the point of this or that element, given direction to the true purpose of the element/kata as taught by Sosai Oyama and Hanshi Arneil. |
My knowledge of Kyokushin kata is limited, however from a general "budo" perspective, the tempo / speed of performance is something that you "absorb" from your instructor - as part of the kata "Omote".
K.
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Usque ad mortem bibendum! |
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on the post.
