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atalaya
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 88
Location: USA-varies
Styles: kyokushin, goju-ryu, aikido

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is obviously a discussion that is heavily involved with the philosphy of a martial art as much as the techniques. I would like to paraphrase a quote the wise Lao Tze wrote in his book on the Way: "... But only one in ten (people born) seems to survive all dangers. When walking through the jungle, she never fears the rhinoceros because there seems to be no place in her to butt his horns... This is the fulfilled person of the Great Integrity who leaves no space in life for premature death."
Lao Tze, to me, is describing the one person in ten who may never have to use martial arts. For the rest of us the martial arts can take on a range of meanings and applications (as Lao Tze alludes to) from giving us an art to practice, a sport to play, a Way to live our lives or a way to protect ourselves or our loved ones from harm. Thus I believe there are times when in fact someone may have to use the art they have practiced.
Please do not be confused. I am not saying that I would kill a person for trying to take my wallet. There are levels of defense which must be considered from both a spiritual and a legal standpoint. Legally you may only do that which is absolutely necessary to protect yourself or those under your direct protection. (please see your local laws about this! every time i move i have to look up the new law). Is the person attacking you to kill you? rape you or a loved one? rob you? ridicule you? This must be weighed properly to have a morally and legally strong response.
As the founder of my first style, Mas Oyama, discovered at an early age, the application of your martial techniques may result in the death or serious injury of your opponent. Life must be considered above ego and a conflict should be avoided whenever possible. This does not mean that I train my students to be pacifists. I tried pacifism and do not believe that it can work. To paraphrase the famous quote; evil wins when good men do nothing.
As far as preparing your body to take a hit: try what aikido founder morihei ueshiba used to do, uchi-gatame or softly pounding the body with fists. Then work up to iron body conditioning (stuff like rolling your shins, et cetera). I hope this has helped to bring another perspective to this discussion. at the start of a new school i was usually picked on just once by the local bully- but i tried hard to never be sadistic or cruel in my responses.
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eat_my_fudge
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 39


PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kicks, but try to use them only to scare him.
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JusticeZero
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2132
Location: New Orleans, LA
Styles: Capoeira Angola

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>you may lose face in the immediate moment, but the administrators will see you were only a complete victim rather than a person who fought back.

The problem with that is that "face" is the very thing that you need to prevent being attacked. Try to talk your way out, but always from a position of strength, not bravado or appeasement. If you are attacked, you will get hurt regardless of whether you fight back - saying to not fight back is the very attitude which, for example, empowers rapists against their victims. Since you will already get hit, you may as well demonstrate that you are not, in fact, acceptable prey, and concentrate on making your attacker into a public demonstration of the fact that you are not a helpless victim.
Yes, you will get in trouble. Suck it up and don't hide from your actions. If you are called on the carpet, just say what happenned straight up. "I was being bullied. I tried to talk my way out of it. He took a swing at me, so I defended myself." Adults have to deal with the consequences of their actions, even if they are perverse. "Yes, I chopped the cherry tree." You will have to deal with the consequences, but you will gain respect; respect is what will protect you from being considered "prey" in the future.
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jj19902003
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 49
Location: indiana
Styles: tae kwon do(mostly), gracie jiu jitsu, boxing, judo, bas rutten fighting system, grappling, jkd, krav maga

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G95champ wrote:
Your not ready

1. Making a post like that

2. Going back tomarrow

3. Let you let rage and anger win

If your a martial artist thats three things you would not have given into. My advise is one don't make post about your conflicts unless they are to set an example for others to follow. 2 martial arts tries to avoid fights not go to where one is about to happen much less bring one about. Finally take a lesson from star wars lol when your at peace and calm is the only time you can effectively defend yourself. When you allow anger and fear to take over you have already lost no matter who walks away bloody.

Stay home and train....



i agree. martial arts is all about discipline and self control. just walk away and only fight if there is no other way out and then just put him in a lock until a teacher or authority figure comes. dont beat him senseless.
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- martial arts legend:bruce lee
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 24808
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jj19902003 wrote:
G95champ wrote:
Your not ready

1. Making a post like that

2. Going back tomarrow

3. Let you let rage and anger win

If your a martial artist thats three things you would not have given into. My advise is one don't make post about your conflicts unless they are to set an example for others to follow. 2 martial arts tries to avoid fights not go to where one is about to happen much less bring one about. Finally take a lesson from star wars lol when your at peace and calm is the only time you can effectively defend yourself. When you allow anger and fear to take over you have already lost no matter who walks away bloody.

Stay home and train....



i agree. martial arts is all about discipline and self control. just walk away and only fight if there is no other way out and then just put him in a lock until a teacher or authority figure comes. dont beat him senseless.


It is not always easy to just "hold someone in a lock" until someone shows up to help. There are too many things that can go wrong, waiting on someone else to help out.
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jj19902003
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 49
Location: indiana
Styles: tae kwon do(mostly), gracie jiu jitsu, boxing, judo, bas rutten fighting system, grappling, jkd, krav maga

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
jj19902003 wrote:
G95champ wrote:
Your not ready

1. Making a post like that

2. Going back tomarrow

3. Let you let rage and anger win

If your a martial artist thats three things you would not have given into. My advise is one don't make post about your conflicts unless they are to set an example for others to follow. 2 martial arts tries to avoid fights not go to where one is about to happen much less bring one about. Finally take a lesson from star wars lol when your at peace and calm is the only time you can effectively defend yourself. When you allow anger and fear to take over you have already lost no matter who walks away bloody.

Stay home and train....



i agree. martial arts is all about discipline and self control. just walk away and only fight if there is no other way out and then just put him in a lock until a teacher or authority figure comes. dont beat him senseless.


It is not always easy to just "hold someone in a lock" until someone shows up to help. There are too many things that can go wrong, waiting on someone else to help out.



i know this but there is always a way not to strike which is the point i was trying to get across
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- martial arts legend:bruce lee
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 24808
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, sure, you never have to strike. But you may get your butt handed back to you if you don't. Personally, I am a big fan of the pre-emptive strike, and feel that it is very valid to use in defending yourself. Maybe its just me, but I don't like getting socked in the face, so I won't wait for it. Anyone can say "just block it." But that is easier said than done.
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jj19902003
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 49
Location: indiana
Styles: tae kwon do(mostly), gracie jiu jitsu, boxing, judo, bas rutten fighting system, grappling, jkd, krav maga

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
Well, sure, you never have to strike. But you may get your butt handed back to you if you don't. Personally, I am a big fan of the pre-emptive strike, and feel that it is very valid to use in defending yourself. Maybe its just me, but I don't like getting socked in the face, so I won't wait for it. Anyone can say "just block it." But that is easier said than done.


i dont like a punch to the face either but i also dont throw the first one and yes "just blocking them" is pretty hard lol
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Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend.
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MizuRyu
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 381
Location: Michigan
Styles: Present: Judo/Boxing, Past: Ryu-Te, Tang Soo Do, Wing Chun, BJJ

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take up wrestling for things like this is my only advice. The thing with striking frenzies is unless you have an enormous level of training and experience in real combat, not much is going to help you out a lot. One on one, BJJ is honestly the easiest way to take someone down. That, and you can choke him out and leave him there while you make your escape lol.

If you're going to strike, there's an old WC trick I use. If they throw high, kick low. Duck under the first strike, set an angle and kick them in the lower thigh (avoid the knee) or side of the leg. It's either going to take them down or distract them, then follow through as aggressively as possible. In a fight, there are only 2 roles: the attacker, and the attacked.
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jj19902003
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 49
Location: indiana
Styles: tae kwon do(mostly), gracie jiu jitsu, boxing, judo, bas rutten fighting system, grappling, jkd, krav maga

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yea in real fights that ive seen all that is thrown is hook punches and a furry of them that is what would be difficult to defend against i think. but yea there are different situations which call for different levels of self defense as others have said. determine the level of defense neccesarry and execute it. but yea only fight to the point were they are not hitting you anymore. if they quit hitting you then you quit hitting them. the bad thing now a days is fighting in school if you are defending yourself even if you throw a punch you are just as guilty in the schools eyes. the only thing yopu are allowed to do is any form of blocking
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Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend.
- martial arts legend:bruce lee
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