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afitzwater
White Belt
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 11
Styles: ToraSamaDo
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 Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:41 pm Post subject: I'm afraid to fail someone... |
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I inherited my sensei's martial arts business after he had some turns for the worst in his life. The problem I am having is the program is run through our city parks and recreation department. We are able to charge for lessons and the city provides us a free place (high school gym) to train.
The thing is being part of the city and parks and recreation, we have a huge political debacle over how things should be run. If I fail a student, not only do they generally quit the program but they can launch a complaint against my school at the city, which in turn, can stop providing us with a place to conduct classes. Politically, the city sees failing someone as a negative impact on the students life.
I'm my sensei's first student since he broke off and started his own school (almost 9 years now) and he has never failed anyone in the program, though I know for a fact he wish he has failed many students. Sometimes I know a student could not pass a belt test (based on class performance) so I try holding them back for a few more months, but I have some students who have been held back up to a year AFTER their general due date for testing.
If this class were just a business, it would be very black and white. Sure I'd risk loosing the student and the income from them but thats nothing compared to loosing your actual place to train.
Gar! *pulls hair out*
BTW, I don't expect a reply to this as advice would probably be hard on this matter. I just needed to vent. |
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MichiganTKD
Orange Belt
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 211
Styles: Chung Do Kwan Tae Kwon Do
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:31 am Post subject: |
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It is better to lose students than your integrity. The worst that could happen, you close the class the class and transfer it to a different area.
Testing can be a very tricky area, since many American students have a sense of entitlement about promotion. Many times they feel "I'm paying for class, therefore I should test." What I think you should do is tell them from the beginning how testings operate and how they stand a better chance of testing.
In our organization, students are prohibited from asking to test. We tell them up front what is expected of them in order to test. Yes, they are paying to attend class, but testing guidelines are not open to negotiation. They must be able to perform form, basics, sparring etc. adequately, otherwise how can they legitimately think they should hold that rank? As the Instructor, it is your job to get them ready. This is not an easy job Sometimes you have to use your imagination in teaching.
Now, as for the city, tell whoever is in charge that testing is run on certain guidelines dictated by your Instructor. Explain why this is so. Wouldn't the City be more proud to have students in its program that honestly hold real rank? This is a far better advertisement for the program than giving students ranks and belt to kleep them happy.
If all else fails, there must be other locations willing to host your classes.
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My opinion-Welcome to it. |
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White Warlock
Black Belt
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 2662
Styles: See my Intro
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Good post Michigan. Another route could be that you simply remove any testing deadlines or expectations. I.e., once you are satisfied with the level of skill a student has obtained, you perform your tests in a subtle fashion, through a series of 'subtests' strewn about your regular training day. Then, you contact their parents (assuming they are minors) and have the belt ceremony at the end of the next class meeting.
Nobody ever fails, because nobody that would fail would be tested. And if there are those that are 'stuck' at a certain level, tell them what they need to focus on to get better. If it's attitude, it's attitude and you can tell them that.
Just some cheese to nibble on. |
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delta1
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 1780
Location: North Central Washington
Styles: It's ALL Kenpo! Bring it back to base!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| MichiganTKD wrote: |
| Now, as for the city, tell whoever is in charge that testing is run on certain guidelines dictated by your Instructor. Explain why this is so. Wouldn't the City be more proud to have students in its program that honestly hold real rank? |
In this day of politically correctness, I'd say probably not. I wish it were so. But you made some good points and suggestions.
afitzwater, you don't mention your style or if you are a member of any associations. If you have any affiliations, you could make them the heavy and say they have minimum standards for rank and testing that you have to adhere to. Beaurocrats tend to understand the appeal to authority better than some minion that they think they control trying to impose standards they cannot begin to comprehend.
Another suggestion might be to go with a phase program instead of belts. When you think they are ready, the student moves up to the next phase. No tests, no expectations for regular advancement. Either they can handle the intensity of the next level, or they stay at the lower level until they can.
If the city insists on running your program, and you can't do away with the belts, then I'd say run two programs; one regular program where the students pay for and get their belts like any good McD- the second, by invitation only, should be a group of your seriouse students who want to learn the art, not dress up their uniform with a piece of cloth. Take those (probably very few) students who agree to higher standards and who work hard, and give them extra instruction outside the regular class. I wouldn't allow them any privilages that set them apart in class, other than the extra work. You'll get blasted by the same beaurocrats, insisting that everyone has the 'right' to be in this group. Wouldn't want to hurt someones self esteem, would you?
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Freedom isn't free! |
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SaiFightsMS
KF VIP
Joined: 28 Oct 2001
Posts: 6322
Location: Ohio
Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu, Shi-to Ryu
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you have a pre-test? That helps a lot. That way only those who do well enough to pass at pre-test are invited to test. Testing can be done by invitation only. |
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Sasori_Te
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 1116
Location: Near Akron Ohio
Styles: Kempo and Kobudo
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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With all of your suggestions he's still at risk of student complaints. The complaints are what can close the school. Personally, I've been in a similar situation, I would test the way I thought testing should run. Have a meeting with the students beforehand and let them know how you test and what can happen if complaints are filed. Nothing like a little peer pressure to help out. Also, if you get a complaint, you close down long enough to get a new location lined up. Try a church, YMCA's are good if you have one near you or go out and get a private place. Ultimately it's not the end of the world. The change and pressure relief would be a good thing.
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A block is a strike is a lock is a throw. |
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MichiganTKD
Orange Belt
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 211
Styles: Chung Do Kwan Tae Kwon Do
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:07 am Post subject: |
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YMCA's tend to have many martial arts programs, so it could be difficult. Some options include schools (asking the principal directly), and churches. Churches are always good. However, you might have more luck with denominations like Methodist, Unitarian, Catholic, or Presbyterian. These tend to be more liberal and open to MA classes. Stay away from Baptist or Pentacostal churches.
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My opinion-Welcome to it. |
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afitzwater
White Belt
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 11
Styles: ToraSamaDo
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your replies.
To make things the easiest, I will continue with not testing students until I feel they are ready. I am also going to consult with them beforehand to see how they feel they are doing.
Of course, this will only work for a small portion of the class as many of the younger students feel they are ready to test the week after they have learned something. The older students are actually quite honest in how they feel they stack up. |
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ramymensa
Black Belt
Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 1393
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Now you can always show the bold ones their place  Correcting them a lot can be a sign they are not that proficient as they thought before. Still you don't want to discourage those who are working ok. There's the mastery. Being fair and still in controll.
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PhDPeddler
Yellow Belt
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 65
Location: TN
Styles: Silat
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Me being a student would dislike a teacher more if I felt like i passed because a teacher felt bad for me. That said, I am not running a business (well I am just not this) like yours. I would also like to know what happens.
My first post here so hello to everyone "I am the newbe" lol |
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