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Bulltahr
Brown Belt
Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 727
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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 Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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I would submit that Buki-Gwa (kobudo) is a martial art and most would agree. What then would be the difference between a sai and a bayonet? Martial arts encompasses anything in which one can utilize to protect/damage/kill another in respects to warfare/combat. It is the art of combat and as such anything that is utilized and is practiced with the intent of utilizing said instrument (hand, foot, elbow, knee, sword, kama, sai, eku, knife, bayonet, bow/yumi, or just about anything that can be used as a weapon) would meet the martial arts criteria.
Lets not forget the first form of combative means was a rock and a stick. This may sound funny but what then is a Rokushaku Bo, Yari, Tuifa, or any other weapon made from wood. Goliath was killed with a rock. The original Suruchin was two stones connected by rope. Is this not a martial art if practiced to defend oneself or to be used in combat?
I submit that a pencil in the hands of a martial artist is just as deadly as a knife in the hands of a layman. If it were practiced and techniques developed why then would it or anything else practiced not be included as a martial art. Who ever thought a cane could become a martial art unto itself. But... it is in the hands of a martial artist.
Yes a crossbow or the practice there of would be a MA. Crossbows were utilized by most countries for battle. It was practiced as much as any other weapon and thus one could make the argument that it is a martial art unto itself.
Kusanku (Kata) was practiced with hair pins. Most of the Pechin class (more or less Samurai for those that do not know what this is) wore hair pins to keep their top knot in place and it was a sign of upper class. They practiced this because weapons could not be carried in certain places or under certain conditions. The hair pins were worn with distinction and thus always available. Funny how something so insignificant can be turned into a weapon and the practice of said item can be considered a MA. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe from a weapon perspective that the bow can launch a projectile like a gun is at question here.
Then if it is an issue, is a hand held catapult a martial art weapon also, or a sling shot or could it be that a boomerang is OK because it is thrown by hand?
Is it the weapons in question or is it the person using it that makes it a martial art weapon or not, or a combination of both?
A stick in the hands of a martial artists can be just as deadly as a samurai sword. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30183
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:41 am Post subject: |
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I think what needs to come under consideration is how effective the chose weapon is. A weapon, by itself, is just an item collecting dust if it isn't used. Now, on the same hand, if any random guy just picks up a sword and starts to swing it, that doesn't make him a Martial Artist. Once he starts to put study into application of the weapon, countering other weapons and such, then we are starting to get somewhere.
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www.haysgym.com
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Maybe from a weapon perspective that the bow can launch a projectile like a gun is at question here.
Then if it is an issue, is a hand held catapult a martial art weapon also, or a sling shot or could it be that a boomerang is OK because it is thrown by hand?
Is it the weapons in question or is it the person using it that makes it a martial art weapon or not, or a combination of both?
A stick in the hands of a martial artists can be just as deadly as a samurai sword. |
I think I pulled this post off track by concentrating on the weapon used.
Let me clarify my thoughts; If a person trains in the practice of a combative method and uses a (any) weapon (stick, steel, or skin and bone) and endeavors to master it for the purposes of self preservation/self defense/ combat, he would be considered a martial artist. If said weapon whether empty hand or an extension of the hand is trained in with the intent of mastery to protect ones self or for the use in a combative method, it would be considered a martial arts weapon.
I was using the analogy of a hair pin to illustrate that any weapon or the practice of said weapon could be considered a martial art.
A martial artist in generic terms would be anyone that trains there body for combat,conflict/war. We all know it encompasses more than that and this is an over simplification but at the root of the word martial you have war. So in terms of a weapon if it is practiced for martial applications and a curriculum or training method is established for said weapon for the purposes of combat, then yes it would in general terms be considered a martial art.
Again I point back to the cane. I doubt anyone, if asked before the american cane system was invented, would have considered a cane to be a martial arts weapon.
On the other hand just because a MA'ist uses a particular weapon to defend themselves does not mean that that weapon or the use there of meets the guidelines to be a MA weapon. Any weapon (pencil, paper clip, scissors, etc.) in the hands of a trained MA'ist is effective but that does not mean that one would develop a training system to teach others to utilize it nor does it mean that it would be effective in combat under different circumstances.
What is a MA what makes a MA'ist? I think it boils down to training, commitment and whether it's a life style or a one time hobby or interest. Someone that learns how to "fight" from watching Kung Fu theater and acts out what they saw is not in my opinion a martial artist. A weapon (any) that is picked up by a layman (un-trained) does not mean that it will be effective even though it is classified as a MA weapon, nor does it mean that the layman is a MA'ist because he is using a weapon that is classified as a MA's weapon.
A martial artist is someone that has spent his/her life studying the arts of war.
A martial art is a tradition of combat training. They are practiced for the means of self defense, to strengthen ones self physically, mentally and spiritually. It is also a means of self mastery.
Obviously this does not encompass what it means to all martial artists. But on the surface, does a decent job of defining the core.
So to further clarify... anyone that trains in a system for combative practices would in generic terms be considered a martial artist. In terms of weapons - any weapon that is a system for combative practices would meet the criteria of a martial arts weapon. In terms of a martial art - any codified system for the means of practicing war/combat in which the participant learns the practices of self defense/combat would be constituted as a martial art.
There is obviously more to being a martial artist and a lot more for what constitutes the criteria for being a martial art or a MA weapon than I have time to fit into this post. |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I think what needs to come under consideration is how effective the chose weapon is. A weapon, by itself, is just an item collecting dust if it isn't used. Now, on the same hand, if any random guy just picks up a sword and starts to swing it, that doesn't make him a Martial Artist. Once he starts to put study into application of the weapon, countering other weapons and such, then we are starting to get somewhere. |
Solid points. I agree. |
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JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 174
Location: NJ
Styles: Hapkido, JKD, TSD
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:34 am Post subject: |
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As it's generally practiced in the US, no, archery is not a martial art in the way we currently consider them.
I got into archery in a big way about 10 years ago, target shooting a compound bow in my semi-rural backyard. There were also deer passing through, which led me to take up hunting and also "3D archery" (shooting a course of foam, animal shaped targets). Having a martial arts bent, I also took up the recurve bow, or what they call "traditional". I even made my own wood arrows and tried making a few bows. At the time, I DID consider it a form of martial art, at least, a substitute in the wake of my club slowly disbanding.
Certainly the bow was a war weapon throughout the world, from the English longbow to the Mongol recurve, infantry and cavalry. With some narrow exceptions (like Kyudo) that's not how people practice archery today. Instead, there's target archery (like Olympic style) and bowhunting.
Neither have the goals associated with modern martial arts- whether self defense, self improvement, or overall fitness. There is competition, yes- but I would say that makes martial arts more a sport than the other way around. |
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on the post.
