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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12059
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: Is BJJ defensive; does Wrestling seem offensive? |
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I wanted to put this question to those who have worked with one or both of these styles.
From what I have seen with these styles, it seems that Wrestling can be very aggressive, and perhaps from the going after the pin mentality. It also seems that BJJers tend to be able to relax more, and show that they can work from their back, and let things come to them. In reading things about Helio Gracie's training, he liked to be more defensive it seemed, laying back, and letting his opponent wear down, and countering on what he was given.
Are these just generalizations I am making (I try not to do that), and it is really based on the person's style when they fight? Or do these styles lend themselves to be more easily offesnive (Wreslting) and defesnive (BJJ)?
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 981
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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When you first start BJJ, you use up a lot of energy just 'going at it'. Once you get used to the stress of grappling and how to position yourself however, you can almost detach yourself somewhat from the situation and become a lot more relaxed and focused on strategy. I think a good part of that might have to do with being on the ground and that it becomes extremely technical.
As for wrestlers, I definitely respect the art. It has some of the best clinch work out there, and just the high impact and conditioning of the art means that wrestlers get into great shape. Because you win on pins and not submissions however, I don't think wrestlers can afford to sit back as much and instead have to focus on a much more aggressive strategy. I would love to hear input from both wrestlers and those who have done both on the matter though. 
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2253
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Submission Grappling, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Wrestlers should learn BJJ.
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 981
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Bjjer's should learn wrestling or judo
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~Theodore Roosevelt |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2253
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Submission Grappling, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| NightOwl wrote: |
| Bjjer's should learn wrestling or judo |
Throws and takedowns are very important yes.
BJJ is a very effective ground fighting system that is continuely growing. I don't see Judo and wrestling expanding like BJJ is.
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"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Always go for the submission" |
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 981
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Wrestling and judo are so wide spread however, that they almost have reached maximum capacity. BJJ is still growing because it still is being discovered by people. On the other hand, Americans have been wrestling for hundreds of years (and Europeans), and almost every High school has a program. For us Yankees, Judo is admittedly not much of a factor. Judo participation is down nation wide, and US showing in the Olympics while usually great, are not so wonderful when it comes to judo. Worldwide however, Judo is huge. Asia, Europe, and South America are hot spots. Judo was also adapted and modified into local culture into both BJJ and SAMBO. Thus with both of the arts being so widespread, I think that BJJ is joining the ranks and influencing, rather than replacing these arts.
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Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12059
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: |
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I agree that Wrestlers and BJJers can learn a lot from each other. Put Randy Couture and Royce Gracie in a room together, and I'll bet that there isn't one that couldn't learn something from the other.
With one year of Wrestling under my belt, I know that it is a very active style, and requires one to be in great shape. You don't see a lot of stalling and waiting, and especially lightweight matches can be very fast-paced. From reading Helio Gracie, and watching great BJJers, it seems like they can be more patient, and can let their opponents walk themselves into a submission.
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MMA_Jim
Yellow Belt
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 63
Location: Philadelphia
Styles: BJJ, Muay Thai
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Is BJJ defensive; does Wrestling seem offensive? |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
I wanted to put this question to those who have worked with one or both of these styles.
From what I have seen with these styles, it seems that Wrestling can be very aggressive, and perhaps from the going after the pin mentality. It also seems that BJJers tend to be able to relax more, and show that they can work from their back, and let things come to them. In reading things about Helio Gracie's training, he liked to be more defensive it seemed, laying back, and letting his opponent wear down, and countering on what he was given.
Are these just generalizations I am making (I try not to do that), and it is really based on the person's style when they fight? Or do these styles lend themselves to be more easily offesnive (Wreslting) and defesnive (BJJ)? |
You're making an assumption of BJJ based on one fighters personal style. Wrestlers are athletes- not all BJJers are athletes. Thats the lure of BJJ- it teaches the weak and feeble how to defeat the strong and athletic.
That being said, Helio prefers the style he does because he wasnt big and strong. He needed to wear his opponents down, and since his takedowns werent top notch, more often than not he needed to do this from his back, since forcing his way on top was very difficult.
There are many different styles of BJJ, just as there are different styles of Boxing or martial arts, if you will. Some jiu jitsu fighters are very aggressive while some are very passive. Usually the more athletic ones find themselves towards the aggressive styles. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12059
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the input, MMA_Jim.
Like I said, I try not to make generalizations, so I wanted to put this question out there.
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ying&yang
Purple Belt
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 513
Location: melbourne
Styles: JKD , and 15 others
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Well i think that neither is more offensive or defensive than the other they are both the same. And i would pick BJJ over wresting any day , because it is much more damarging.
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I think that there is no 1 style , and that to truly become a great martial artist and person you must take information from where ever you can. |
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on the post.
