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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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 Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:01 am Post subject: Is it normal ? |
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Is it normal that you don't like KATA ?!
Most of the time I feel like I don't like practising KATA , feel it's not that important ! i know I am wrong & KATA is important as all practitioners say so but is it normal to feel like that when you are a beginner ? How do you get yourself to like it ?!
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"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Bulltahr
Brown Belt
Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 727
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Try to understand the bunkai of each move if you are bored (Maybe not the right word). I love kata tho, some more than others, but I would say once you have the perfect kata then you can rest...lol.................i.e. never.......
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"We don't have any money, so we will have to think" - Ernest Rutherford |
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mazzybear
Brown Belt
Joined: 30 Oct 2013
Posts: 675
Location: Scotland.
Styles: Wado Kai
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Everybody has some part of their particular martial art they don't like so much. Some kata, some sparring. I don't particularly like Ippon gummite but, I like kata. Try breaking the kata down and look at the bunkai to it, if you have more of an idea what each move could potentially be, then you might like it a bit better.
Mo.
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Be water, my friend. |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Bulltahr wrote: |
| Try to understand the bunkai of each move if you are bored (Maybe not the right word). I love kata tho, some more than others, but I would say once you have the perfect kata then you can rest...lol.................i.e. never....... |
Is the bunkai of each move should be explained in the dojo or it'/ something you have to look for ?! It was never explained to me before
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| mazzybear wrote: |
| Everybody has some part of their particular martial art they don't like so much |
Good to know that I am not the only one 
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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ashworth
Brown Belt
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 707
Location: UK
Styles: Shotokan, IJR Karate, Iaido, Kobudo
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Ask your instructor more about the bunkai, we partner up and practise certain applications from kata on each other so that we understand where the kata is coming from.
I have had students in the past show a strong dislike for kata, until I demonstrate the possibilities with different bunkai examples.
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Ashley Aldworth
Train together, Learn together, Succeed together... |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2733
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Some people simply don't enjoy the practice of kata, no matter what--my wife is one of those, for example, and is willing to hit things or learn self defense techniques, but refuses to actually practice karate because of the kata. Other people tend to hate kata because they don't see the value in it, which seems to be where you might be. I tend to see that the most in Kyokushin practitioners, too, honestly, because your kata just have no real connection to your kumite, and kumite tends to be the main focus for a lot of Kyokushin people.
As has been mentioned, the best way to appreciate the value of kata is to learn practical fighting applications for them. Your instructor may or may not know these applications, but the only way you'll find out is to ask, so I recommend that you do! If you don't get satisfactory answers, or you simply want more points of view, then doing your own research can help with that.
If you do decide to do your own research, I have some recommendations for you. First, I recommend that you read "The Way of Kata" by Kris Wilder and Lawrence Kane, as it will give you a good understanding of the basics of kata bunkai (analysis). Since the kata curriculum of Kyokushin is a mix of Shotokan and Goju-Ryu, you'll have to do research on two systems to find applications specific to the kata you practice. Iain Abernethy does Wado-Ryu, but it is quite similar to Shotokan, and so you will be able to find connections to your kata from him. You can also check out Kissaki-Kai methods from Vince Morris or his students, like Don Came, as they are Shotokan folks. For the Goju-Ryu side of things, I highly recommend material from Masaji Taira and Paul Enfield. All of this should give you a good, solid base of material to work with that connects to your kata.
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ashworth wrote: |
Ask your instructor more about the bunkai, we partner up and practise certain applications from kata on each other so that we understand where the kata is coming from.
I have had students in the past show a strong dislike for kata, until I demonstrate the possibilities with different bunkai examples. |
Thanks ashworth, I will try
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Wastelander wrote: |
Some people simply don't enjoy the practice of kata, no matter what--my wife is one of those, for example, and is willing to hit things or learn self defense techniques, but refuses to actually practice karate because of the kata. Other people tend to hate kata because they don't see the value in it, which seems to be where you might be. I tend to see that the most in Kyokushin practitioners, too, honestly, because your kata just have no real connection to your kumite, and kumite tends to be the main focus for a lot of Kyokushin people.
As has been mentioned, the best way to appreciate the value of kata is to learn practical fighting applications for them. Your instructor may or may not know these applications, but the only way you'll find out is to ask, so I recommend that you do! If you don't get satisfactory answers, or you simply want more points of view, then doing your own research can help with that.
If you do decide to do your own research, I have some recommendations for you. First, I recommend that you read "The Way of Kata" by Kris Wilder and Lawrence Kane, as it will give you a good understanding of the basics of kata bunkai (analysis). Since the kata curriculum of Kyokushin is a mix of Shotokan and Goju-Ryu, you'll have to do research on two systems to find applications specific to the kata you practice. Iain Abernethy does Wado-Ryu, but it is quite similar to Shotokan, and so you will be able to find connections to your kata from him. You can also check out Kissaki-Kai methods from Vince Morris or his students, like Don Came, as they are Shotokan folks. For the Goju-Ryu side of things, I highly recommend material from Masaji Taira and Paul Enfield. All of this should give you a good, solid base of material to work with that connects to your kata. |
Thanks for such a solid post & recommendation. " The way of kata " will be my next book then
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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RJCKarate
Orange Belt
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Australia
Styles: Matsubayashiryu Karatedo Kobujutsu, Yamaneryu Kobudo
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Safroot,
Hello from another Aussie - if you're ever down Canberra way, drop me a line and you'd be welcome to visit my dojo.
As for kata, I personally really enjoy it. However, is the exploration, analysis and attempt to understand it that I enjoy particularly, rather than the practise of the solo repetitions.
Kata is a mmemoric template for response that allows you to practise the applications in a kata when in your own.
I think enjoyment of kata is directly related to understanding. I personally don't see the kata as a single strain of self defence techniques, but rather a multitude of short sequences designed to teach fundamental skills which can be then brought together to form something that is collectively greater - kata.
Good luck on your journey with kata!
P.s. plenty of styles that also don't use kata, too.
_________________
Reece Cummings
Kodokan Cummings Karate Dojo
5th Dan, Matsubayashiryu (Shorinryu) Karatedo Kobujutsu
1st Dan, Yamaneryu Kobudo |
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on the post.
