Is there such a thing as "real" karate?

shortyafter · Orange Belt

Hi there - I wanted to get some 3rd party opinions from people who know more than I.

I started doing Kyokushin-kai 2 years ago. No preference, I just googled karate near my house and it was 5 minutes away. The sensei had trained in Japan, training was quite rigorous - etiquette is enforced, and don't break that kiba-dachi until Yame is called or you are going to get yelled at. At least hope the Sensei doesn't see but that's obviously not a great attitude. I advanced rapidly in 3 months, then, my career took me out of the country for about 9 months. I came back the following summer and same deal, this time don't feel I advanced as rapidly but see improvement and train well.

And here I am back in my new home again. It's a small town but there's a couple of dojos here. There is one I like, smaller, but I feel I jive well with the Sensei, and he was my first one here and I prefer to stick with him. It's Shotokan. Like I said, small dojo, so I'm usually training alone with the Sensei or with teenagers. Atmosphere is much more relaxed. We follow the etiquette but nothing is quite enforced, we greet the Sensei before the class but how we talk to him is really up to us, respectful sure but we can address him as a friend. I can break my kiba-dachi at any time without him saying anything, so it's really on me to be strong-spirited on that front. Or if I'm a bit sluggish one day the sensei might call me out but it won't result in a verbal disparagement until I shape up, or anything like that. That again is kind of on me.

Dojo 1 I feel like I was learning about - strong spirit, persistence, don't give up and push yourself beyond your limits. Dojo 2 I am learning much less about spirit and much more about technique. I am still feeling pushed but I feel pushed at a leisurely pace, it's not necessarily do or die like in Dojo 1. It's moreso on me, if I want to advance, I come to every class, and I practice at home, which is what I'm doing.

Honestly it got to the point where I did not enjoy training at dojo 1 because I was so darn scared going into class. Yes there were epic moments where myself or the class would rise above or overcome and I did learn from these, absolutely, but I finally decided gee it's just not worth so much stress to me. If my heart were in it maybe, but for me it's not my life, it's my hobby.

I remember Sensei 1 told us that such a dojo as dojo number 2 might be considered "fantasy karate". What is you all's opinion? Am I learning fantasy karate? Is there such a thing as "real" karate? How do you all train?

Thank you

sensei8 · KF Sensei

Welcome to KF, shortyafter; glad that you're here!!

Lupin1 · Black Belt

I don't think there's such as thing as "real" karate. Karate is so varied and different people have different goals. I don't think the person doing karate for self-defense is any more or less "real" than the person doing it for fitness or the person doing it for the tradition and the art.

I do wish people would differentiate more between sport karate, combat-oriented karate and traditional karate, but I wouldn't call any one of those "real" or "fake". Just different.

Which type of karate and which dojo you choose depends on your goals and what you want to get out of karate. Choose a school that shares your goals and will help you meet them. Judging by your post, it sounds like dojo 2 may fit more with your personality and you will enjoy your training more there. Shotokan is most definitely not "fantasy karate" and is actually one of the more traditional styles.

You just have to ask yourself what you want to get out of karate and which of the dojos will help you meet your goals. Neither is more or less valid-- just a different approach.

Edit-- I also want to point out that many instructors are very invested in the approach they've chosen to the point they look down on those who've chosen a different approach. My instructor likes to throw around terms like "real karate" and "fake karate" when comparing us to the school down the street. We're a more traditional school with a large kata focus and our goal is power and focus in our movements. We don't do flashy moves or much "tag you're it" sparring. The other school is more sport-karate oriented. They do flashier moves with very little power or focus and do a lot of very light contact point sparring. Their goal is competition and fitness. I've had people from that school call what we do at my school "fake karate" because we're a small school at a community center that only rarely competes in small local competitions, and they're a large commercial school that competes regularly at large competitions where people win lots of medals and trophies. In reality, neither school is "real" or "fake". They just cater to people with different goals and different priorities.

Dani_001 · Orange Belt

Hi there,

You may not find much difference between Kyokushinkai and Shotokan as Kyokushin is comprised of Shotokan and Goju Ryu.

I agree with what everyone else said so not much to add.

Enjoy your experience on this forum and your Karate experience. Welcome to KF!

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Uphold the Budo spirit and nothing will overcome you!

pers · Purple Belt

Anything including karate be it shotokan or kyukoshin or else can be real or fake ,strong or weak ,depending on who is teaching it and how knowlegable they are ...
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never give up !

Wayofaswede · Orange Belt

Welcome to the forum

I believe that labels such as "real" and "fake" are of less importance than what you feel actually give you real strength/growth/joy/mindset to overcome obstacles in life etc.

If the overall journey leads in a direction that affects your life in a positive direction, then you are training a budo art that is "real", valuable, important to you.

In other words, listen to your heart, your instincts, gut feeling, then train where - and in a way that makes - you improve both physically and mentally.

Turn to - and stick to - the sun that makes you truly grow and blossom like a cherry tree. Best of luck with your training.

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The path so far: 2 kyu Karate (Shito-ryu), 3 kyu Aikido (Aikikai), 5 kyu Judo, 9 kyu Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

Not a day without a kata

wildbourgman · Orange Belt

Wildbourgman Kai do Ryu is the only real karate!

The question is very subjective, so humor is my only answer.
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WildBourgMan

Wado Heretic · Green Belt

Karate only becomes fake when those practising it lack sincerity; when they make a claim about what they practice which is not grounded in reality.

If you claim to teach karate as self-defence, and then neglect practical self-defence considerations then that is "fake" Karate. If you claim to teach karate as a sport, but ignore sport science, fitness, and competition practice then that is "Fake" karate. If you call your karate traditional but do not practice Hojo Undo, and the other marks of historical practice then that is "Fake" karate.

So long as what your claims about your karate, and what you actually do, are one in the same; it is real. I am a hard teacher; full-contact is an aspect of what I teach, as is Hojo-Undo. However, I do not consider my karate any more real than the local clubs which cater to children and competition fighting. I suspect my students would win if it came down to a street fight or a full contact competition, but that does not make our karate any more "real"; it just means we have practised for that scenario. In the same sense I do not think my students would necessarily do all that well against the local MMA Gym fighters in a cage match; because we do not train for cage matches. You fight how you train, and you train for what you expect to face.

I have been told my Shorin-Ryu is not "real" because I incorporate grappling into my kihon-waza, and our line practice is usually 80% with a partner, and 20% against the air or with hand weights. Our basics consist of around a half traditional percussive and receiving techniques, and a third body-to-body techniques, and the remainder Ne Waza. Because this does not match expectations of tradional Okinawan Karate; it has not been called "authentic". It is one of those things that is in the eye of the beholder. I evolve my karate as I learn more, and my students grow.
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R. Keith Williams

sensei8 · KF Sensei

MatsuShinshii · Black Belt

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