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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12820
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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 Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| ZakariRu wrote: |
Scoring is based on Nishinformation.
To score a point both feet must be firmly on the floor. I have seen perfect yaku-tsuki that don't score at ITKF tournaments because the attackers heel comes off the ground when they put their hip into the punch.
Same with the lead leg, dont spring into the punch. It would have to be firmly planted.
It almost has to look like one steps, looks strong in actuallity is very weak.
No kizami-geri please. |
Boy, this sounds very odd. Doesn't sound like it approves of mobility.
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cathal
Black Belt
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1941
Location: Canada
Styles: Shotokan, Jiu-Jitsu, Ryukyu Kobujutsu
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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I received an email from the tournament committee and they only accept Shodan-level karateka, who are ITKF members. So it's not an open tourney. C'est la vie. 
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The best victory is when the opponent surrenders
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hostilities...It is best to win without fighting.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12820
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| cathal wrote: |
| I received an email from the tournament committee and they only accept Shodan-level karateka, who are ITKF members. So it's not an open tourney. C'est la vie. |
That's too bad.
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Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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RichardGregory
Red Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 757
Location: Essex, UK
Styles: Seitou Ryu Karate
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| cathal wrote: |
| It's the International Traditional Karate Federation. Here is a link to their website: http://www.itkf.org/ I am thinking it is similar to the JKA. |
Just looked at the website. It's a bit outdated isn't it? Looks like it hasn't been updated in a year or 2 (Still has stuff for 2004 advertised)
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[b]Richard Gregory
Seitou Ryu Karate - Co-Founder/Chief Instructor
Seitou Ryu Karate Forums |
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cathal
Black Belt
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1941
Location: Canada
Styles: Shotokan, Jiu-Jitsu, Ryukyu Kobujutsu
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Sure is...rather strange for such a huge organization.
_________________
The best victory is when the opponent surrenders
of its own accord before there are any actual
hostilities...It is best to win without fighting.
- Sun-tzu |
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DancingSteve
Yellow Belt
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 72
Styles: Shotokan (Shodan)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: Not sure whats up with the website |
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But yeah I have noticed that the website development is moving at less than a snail's pace.
BushidoMan...its not so much ANTI-mobility but more focused on putting yourself in a position to deliver a 'technically' sound technique. If your heel is off the floor or your front foot springing forward to catch your opponent with your fist. Where is the technique in that punch? If your heel is up...the punch is technically weak right? So why should it deserve a point? The way I see it..and this is because I train and compete ITKF of course is that..when you make a point..it should be a technique that you would be proud of...an actual 'killing blow' without any contact. We also do not condone ANY contact to the head area...and minimal to the chest and below. Of course it happens..I've been knocked out before..but its not going to get you a point.
We always used to call the other types of tournaments 'tip-tap' tournaments...lots more footwork..fast moving in and throwing out a reverse punch and tagging your opponents chest. If I wanted to play tag...I'd stay on the playground. If you want to test technique against technique..instead of how fast I can 'get' you with a closed fist..then you fight ITKF because any sort of weakness in the technique is going to get called.
Just my humble opinion...Im sure you all have yours as well. |
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DancingSteve
Yellow Belt
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 72
Styles: Shotokan (Shodan)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| ZakariRu wrote: |
| Scoring is based on Nishinformation. |
Thats not very nice.  |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12820
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Not sure whats up with the website |
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| DancingSteve wrote: |
But yeah I have noticed that the website development is moving at less than a snail's pace.
BushidoMan...its not so much ANTI-mobility but more focused on putting yourself in a position to deliver a 'technically' sound technique. If your heel is off the floor or your front foot springing forward to catch your opponent with your fist. Where is the technique in that punch? If your heel is up...the punch is technically weak right? So why should it deserve a point? The way I see it..and this is because I train and compete ITKF of course is that..when you make a point..it should be a technique that you would be proud of...an actual 'killing blow' without any contact. We also do not condone ANY contact to the head area...and minimal to the chest and below. Of course it happens..I've been knocked out before..but its not going to get you a point.
We always used to call the other types of tournaments 'tip-tap' tournaments...lots more footwork..fast moving in and throwing out a reverse punch and tagging your opponents chest. If I wanted to play tag...I'd stay on the playground. If you want to test technique against technique..instead of how fast I can 'get' you with a closed fist..then you fight ITKF because any sort of weakness in the technique is going to get called.
Just my humble opinion...Im sure you all have yours as well. |
I see what you are saying, but I don't think you have to have your heels planted for a technique to be sound. When I get in close and crowd my opponent, I throw lots of hooking and uppercutting punches into their body. While executing these punches, I am twisting my hips and shoulders into the punches, while pushing off of the balls of my feet, which will raise the heels off the ground. These punches still have power, which is generated from the body and hips.
If you want to score based on technique, ie, heels down, etc., then that is the place for forms competition, in my opinion. In sparring, and fighting, technique is going to alter some, and things are not going to remain that static.
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DancingSteve
Yellow Belt
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 72
Styles: Shotokan (Shodan)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Not sure whats up with the website |
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When I get in close and crowd my opponent, I throw lots of hooking and uppercutting punches into their body. While executing these punches, I am twisting my hips and shoulders into the punches, while pushing off of the balls of my feet, which will raise the heels off the ground. These punches still have power, which is generated from the body and hips.
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But I've never trained these types of punches when training kihon. So why should they count during a tournament?
I have some tapes of ITKF Canadian National Tournaments and I can tell you it certainly isnt as bland as it sounds. It just means that there is a lot less ambiguity on the techniques that 'score' and the techniques that don't. Generally the exchange is either a combination that lands a decent roundhouse kick, or front kick. And even more often it is how it is intended. Opponent launches attack..Defender catches timing and blocks and counterattacks. A LOT of points in ITKF is scored with gyaku-zuki.
We also focus a LOT on timing. Sen timing, Sen No Sen Timing, Go No Sen timing. When I was competing nationally we would train all these types because (as I think about it) it is the key to executing effective techniques. I also have competed in Open tournaments where I was absolutely floored because techniques that I wouldn't have worried about were getting points.
I remember I was fighting some little tiny guy...me being a little tiny guy too...and he kept throwing a hook kick I guess basically catching me in the ribs with his heel, but his leg was bent when he hit me and he was totally off balance. Something that never would have been called in ITKF. I think it took me two or three times to realize he was actually getting points for this. One of the last times he did it he lifted up that front leg and tapped me on the hip bone..I lunged my hips forward giving him a lot of resistance against his kick and his supporting leg buckled and he went to the ground. Thats the point I guess..just getting the hand or foot there isnt enough. I also got into trouble during this fight too because I was starting to get infuriated by this guy so I slid into his stance again, grabbed his gi and pounded him in the face. The ref made us both do 10 pushups. Hee Hee.
Theres way more tournaments out there that are like the one above than there are ITKF, and I guess I like it because its so much more rigid and strict. I'm not training in karate to learn how to fight...Im training in karate to learn karate. Defending yourself is a lot different than tournament fighting so I dont put a lot of stock in styles that are training your for tournament fighting all the time. Showing you how to 'get points' and what not. I know from your posts Bushido your not this kind of person so dont take offense, Im just saying why I like ITKF better. |
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ZakariRu
Orange Belt
Joined: 01 Mar 2002
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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That is the theory behind the heel being down. It is to make the technique look correct.
I have trained this style before. For kihon usually I still train that way,
but today?
I hit hard.
Even if it looks like I am not hitting hard at all.
Believe me, I hit harder with my heel up then down. Its a matter of being unweighted, if your front foot is off the ground and you are the ball of the back foot your body weight is added to the punch. If you "make focus" with your feet "grounded" you are putting less weight behind the punch and limiting your ability to really thwack something.
You may look like you are hitting harder but you aren't. I can give you some makiwara and wall experiments to test this.
Kime=Bad karate.
Espicially the Way ITKF does it.
An Ippon comes from your heart, and your spirit. Not from having 2 heels firmly planted. |
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on the post.
