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YODA
Black Belt
Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Posts: 1033
Location: England (int'north west)
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 Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2002 4:19 am Post subject: |
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"The point is that this system was designed for a particular purpose: To defeat the enemy as fast as possible in a no-nonsense survival situation. That?s just what Wing Chun does from beginning to end and I think it does it the best"
As for it's design In agree. As for the best then yes, it may well be the best - for you 
Some scenarios for you (and anyone else)..... you are at a family gathering and an old uncle who is diabetic goes hypoglycemic and starts getting aggressive. He starts throwing punches at people. How does your Wing Chun deal with this. Are you going to stick your fingers in his eyes or punch him hard enough to stop him?
How about a small framed female school teacher who has to deal with an attempted physical assault by a 12 year old boy who is bigger & stronger than her. Would Wing Chun be any use to her? Can she kick him in the groin & stamp on his knees and still keep her job?
A third one - you are a psychiatric nurse at a prison for the criminally insane. An inmate comes at you with a pair of scissors with the intent of sticking them through your chest. This is an oppoenent with a VERY resistant mindset. Kicking or punching him ANYWHERE will have no effect. He's been sprayed with CS gas, he's been beaten about the head & limbs with a baton, and he's still coming! What do you do? All 3 of these scenarios have happened to students of mine in the last 6 months! These are real people with real self protection needs - what do you teach them in Wing Chun to deal with these situations?
Also I must add - I don't think Aikido holds the answers to these questions either. In fact in an environment where the threat level can change from minor to major in the blink of an eye I don't think any art has all the answers. A key step is finding an art that understands all the questions
_________________
YODA
2nd Degree Black Belt : Doce Pares Eskrima www.docepares.co.uk
Qualified Instructor : JKD Concepts www.jkdc.co.uk
Qualified Fitness Instructor (Weights, CV, Circuit, Kinesiology) |
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Shaolin
Orange Belt
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 123
Location: NYC Metro Area
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 8:18 am Post subject: |
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On 2002-03-10 05:19, YODA wrote:
"The point is that this system was designed for a particular purpose: To defeat the enemy as fast as possible in a no-nonsense survival situation. That’s just what Wing Chun does from beginning to end and I think it does it the best"
As for it's design In agree. As for the best then yes, it may well be the best - for you
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Okay well this is a red herring. I am sure you know that the stated objective of the Wing Chun is the perfection of simplicity in combat. This can be taken into several different levels of discussion but I assume you would agree that simpler is better than complicated in combat – no? Whatever your position on this is I can tell you our position is that total simplicity in combat is perfection in combat and is the stated objective of Wing Chun. The most direct path in form, approach, training, theory, and movement that provides for a totalistic solution to ending a confrontation..
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On 2002-03-10 05:19, YODA wrote:
Some scenarios for you (and anyone else)..... you are at a family gathering and an old uncle who is diabetic goes hypoglycemic and starts getting aggressive.
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I already acknowledged this in my last post:
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On 2002-03-10 01:15, Shaolin wrote:
Wing Chun is very good at messing someone up but not so good at being gentle or giving you the option to use restraining moves on people who you may not want to hurt too badly. I have been in situations where I didn't feel right messing the guy up. In that case I would have been happy to get him in a wrist lock while we waited for the police to come instead of using my mouth to talk him to death.
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This is why I am looking to add some grappling.
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On 2002-03-10 05:19, YODA wrote:
Also I must add - I don't think Aikido holds the answers to these questions either.
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Please tell me why you think Aikido would not be applicable to using gentler techniques against an assailant. I am interested in Aikido for fun but of course I was hoping to pick up some throwing, joint locks and generally varied energy training. I would have thought that many of the moves they use would translate into come-along moves and restraining techniques. Most of the moves I have seen look like they could flow right out of Wing Chun. Any info you can share regarding this would be helpful.
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On 2002-03-10 05:19, YODA wrote:. A key step is finding an art that understands all the questions
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I’m guessing that art would use all methods and be bound by none. Hmmm I thought I heard of a system like that once.
As you stated in your site regarding Bruce: I would rather study with all the great masters instead of studying with a student of all the great masters.
Jim
_________________
Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher, dear friend, dear brother, and dear father: Moy Yat Sifu
[ This Message was edited by: Shaolin on 2002-03-11 09:27 ] |
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YODA
Black Belt
Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Posts: 1033
Location: England (int'north west)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Hi again Jim
This is great - disagreeing with someone on a martial arts forum & then actually having an intelligent debate instead of throwing teddies out of prams - I love this forum
Aikido CAN work - I am around Aikido people a lot, exchaging ideas etc, sparring etc. Some of my students are Dan Grade Aikidoka and even they agree that it takes at least 10 years before Aikido STARTS to become viable. The main problem lies i the raining method - compliance at all levels. If you enjoy it then great - go for it. Come along holds are more Ju-Jutsu if that's what you're looking for. They work very well after a good smack in the mouth
If you wnat my advice on grappling - learn to clinch & takedown, learn to dominate position, then learn a handfull of chokes & submissions that work in multiple positions. If you find the right source you will find that grappling shares many of the same principles as good Wing Chun. Economy, control of centre, simplicity.
_________________
YODA
2nd Degree Black Belt : Doce Pares Eskrima www.docepares.co.uk
Qualified Instructor : JKD Concepts www.jkdc.co.uk
Qualified Fitness Instructor (Weights, CV, Circuit, Kinesiology) |
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Kempo_Dude
Orange Belt
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 180
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2002 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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JKD Is boring... Cause there's no JKD School around here... and doings of JKD Is pretty boring, there's no even costumes. It doesn't tell if what Rank your in.
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Kempo dude says: Stand up show me what you got, im black belter in kempo, im a Kempo champ. lets see who will win! |
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jiu-jitsu fighter
Brown Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 606
Styles: praying mantis, ninjutsu, BJJ,Blauer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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jkd concepts is what dan inosanto and larry hartsell teach, they use techniques from other arts to try and improve and add to the original jkd which bruce lee started .
now , some people like ted wong the third studend of bruce lees (inosanto ,hartsell, wong, were the only instructors promoted under lee) believes that everything was fine the way it was and that it would be wrong to change anything. this is the original jkd, good luck finding someone that teaches that.
some jkd instructors like paul vunak and matt thorton have studied other arts and use techniques from bjj and silat and so on to fill in areas of training that they feel was not completed by bruce lee, or that these ares could have been improved. if i studied under paul vunak i would let him teach me whatever he wanted in the jkd class because his martial arts training from various styles only give his students more options
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"When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,
and most people don't even know how to swim" |
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Ashura
Yellow Belt
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 45
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Hello, I am sort of new to these forums..This whole JKD talk has gotten me semi confused about JKD. I've taken a few classes, like karate and tae kwan do, didn;t get very far in them but they were fun. But now I practice martial arts on my own using books, movies anything I can. I take moves from different styles and incorporate them the way i see fit..So am I using JKD philosiphy or am I just some weirdo? |
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jiu-jitsu fighter
Brown Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 606
Styles: praying mantis, ninjutsu, BJJ,Blauer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 11:30 am Post subject: |
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um your not a weirdo, but its very hard to learn techniques on your own, you see a jkd teacher will take techniques from different styles that he find effective and he will blend them together and make them work especially for you, i would stick with jkd if i were you , and by the way who is your instructor?
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"When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,
and most people don't even know how to swim" |
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Ashura
Yellow Belt
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 45
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 11:45 am Post subject: |
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As I stated before I use to be in Karate and Tae Kwan Do, but now I just practice on my own, I take useful skills from say like Thai boxing or some other martial arts and just incorporate them to what I do..
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Yup >img src="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt=""> |
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jiu-jitsu fighter
Brown Belt
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 606
Styles: praying mantis, ninjutsu, BJJ,Blauer
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2003 10:54 am Post subject: |
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thats very non-smart of you, how do you know your doin the technique how it was suppose to be done, and what range of techniques are you teaching yourself i , hope nothing too complicated
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"When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,
and most people don't even know how to swim" |
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EnergyBoxer
White Belt
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 24
Styles: Wing Chun, JKD, Dan Zan Ryu/ Brazilian Jujitsu, Kali, Chinese Hawaiian Kempo,Tai Chi, F.M.A. ,.........
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2003 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Wing Chun is my core art, and i can say that one will never fully understand JKD without first studing WC, from what I know, Bruce did not learn all of WC, and this was the catalyst to his evolution as a person and a fighter, he strove for knowlege, with the best possible attitude, "use what ever works". The Nucleus is everything Bruce taught up to his death, well most of it , JKD concepts, and principles, are utilized to progress from where Bruce left off. Who's to say how he would fight now, all we can do is Recognize and Refine our own self. Also Jun Fan Gung Fu is very different then JKD, in JFGF, you see more of Bruces' chinese martial art influence, JKD was the next phase, Bruce cut down on trapping and some of the classical movements, and started using more movements from fencing and boxing, footwork was strongly studied upon, kicks changed, he changed. As far as " Mastering Wing Chun in 5 yrs, hmm, I personally think it is not possible to "Master" anything. It Masters you.
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Kai Sai Wing Chun Kung Fu, JKD, Brazilian/Dan Zan Ryu Jujitsu, Chinese Hawiian Kempo, Pressure Point/Nerve/Cavity striking, and Tai Chi. |
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on the post.
