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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1674
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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 Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: Judo throw mix mash |
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I never formally studied Judo. I studied Aiki Jujitsu, which incorporates the throws of judo. But, in my opinion, they are taught in a dramatically different manner. We were taught to use them in conjunction with strikes and it was most often practiced in the form of ippon kumite. My point is this. Because I've never learned many of the throws while working with a struggling opponent, I don't have a full understanding of some of their differences.
For example:
Ko soto gake vs. ko soto gari. What's the difference? In all the vids I find, they look identical. Same really goes for Harai Goshi and O goshi. Though I've used the two on resisting opponents, they seem to be the same throw. The only exception is the extention of the leg.
Here are the questions:
1. Are all of the throws truly different?
2. Why did they chose to call minor variations by a completely different name?
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Throwdown0850
Blue Belt
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 340
Styles: Kodokan Judo, AikiJuJutsu, Kenpo Karate, just started Kyusho-Jitsu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Judo throw mix mash |
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| ps1 wrote: |
I never formally studied Judo. I studied Aiki Jujitsu, which incorporates the throws of judo. But, in my opinion, they are taught in a dramatically different manner. We were taught to use them in conjunction with strikes and it was most often practiced in the form of ippon kumite. My point is this. Because I've never learned many of the throws while working with a struggling opponent, I don't have a full understanding of some of their differences.
For example:
Ko soto gake vs. ko soto gari. What's the difference? In all the vids I find, they look identical. Same really goes for Harai Goshi and O goshi. Though I've used the two on resisting opponents, they seem to be the same throw. The only exception is the extention of the leg.
Here are the questions:
1. Are all of the throws truly different?
2. Why did they chose to call minor variations by a completely different name? |
1.) nope.. it all comes from the same place... Those throws you mentioned are the same thing I think.. you kinda already answered your own question by saying that they incorporate strikes with the throws... 
the Harai Goshi and O goshi are different...
Harai Goshi is called a "sweeping hip throw" you use your leg with the hip throw...
O goshi is a hip throw.. period.. ( no leg used in aide with the throw )
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1674
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Judo throw mix mash |
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| Throwdown0850 wrote: |
1.) nope.. it all comes from the same place... Those throws you mentioned are the same thing I think.. you kinda already answered your own question by saying that they incorporate strikes with the throws...
the Harai Goshi and O goshi are different...
Harai Goshi is called a "sweeping hip throw" you use your leg with the hip throw...
O goshi is a hip throw.. period.. ( no leg used in aide with the throw ) |
Right, I know they are called different things. But the entry and execution of Harai and O goshi are identical. The only difference is the leg comes out in Harai in order to catch the opponent as they retreat. It just seems to be another variation of O goshi to me. Am I, perhaps, executing it incorrectly? Do you set it up differently than Ogoshi?
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rb
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 404
Styles: judo, bjj
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: |
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kosotogari is a sweep. Gake is blocking.
Ogoshi the hips are square, sleeve hand pulling, lapel hand released and engaging the back.
Harai goshi the sleeve pulls. Lapel side can grip on the back like ogoshi, stay on the lapel or cross over to same side grip. This becomes more of yamarashi. The footwork for harai is not square but rather forms a crossing T. The hips are also not engaged square but rather half and perpendicular. With the pull of the sleeve, push from the lapel the opponent is pivoted around the half engaged hip. Putting the leg out wheels the person over.
If you are using the leg to sweep on the retreat it is classified as osoto gari. |
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1674
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| rb wrote: |
kosotogari is a sweep. Gake is blocking.
Ogoshi the hips are square, sleeve hand pulling, lapel hand released and engaging the back.
Harai goshi the sleeve pulls. Lapel side can grip on the back like ogoshi, stay on the lapel or cross over to same side grip. This becomes more of yamarashi. The footwork for harai is not square but rather forms a crossing T. The hips are also not engaged square but rather half and perpendicular. With the pull of the sleeve, push from the lapel the opponent is pivoted around the half engaged hip. Putting the leg out wheels the person over.
If you are using the leg to sweep on the retreat it is classified as osoto gari. |
Very insightful. Thanks for the clarification.
To be sure I understand it correctly...It's ko soto gari when I physically move their foot. But it's ko soto gake when I simply impede the movement of their foot.
Is it classified as Osot gari even though my leg is not behind theirs? What I'm saying is that as I enter for Ogoshi, the opponent steps back with the far leg. Rather than turning and having to reach for o soto gari, I simply extend my leg in a sweeping motion to the front of the knee/thigh area and the opponent wheels over it.
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on the post.
