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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12964
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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That is an interesting way to put it, ninjer.
I can see your point. However, if I was standing up, and I notice that more people are entering the fight, it is much easier to high-tail it out of there when you are already on your feet.
Just my opinion, though. I have been fortunate enough to not have to fight.
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ninjer
Yellow Belt
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
That is an interesting way to put it, ninjer.
I can see your point. However, if I was standing up, and I notice that more people are entering the fight, it is much easier to high-tail it out of there when you are already on your feet.
Just my opinion, though. I have been fortunate enough to not have to fight. |
Agreed, but knowing how to fight on the ground also means you know how to get up from the ground in a safe manner. Also take into account that most people get tunnel vision when in a fight. As a result, you only notice that more people are entering the fight once they've already hit you. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12964
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| ninjer wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
That is an interesting way to put it, ninjer.
I can see your point. However, if I was standing up, and I notice that more people are entering the fight, it is much easier to high-tail it out of there when you are already on your feet.
Just my opinion, though. I have been fortunate enough to not have to fight. |
Agreed, but knowing how to fight on the ground also means you know how to get up from the ground in a safe manner. |
Ah, I agree with this 100%.
Your other points are good as well.
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marie curie
KF Sempai
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: PA, USA
Styles: Ko Sutemi Seiei Kan Karate, Kajukenbo, Kodokan Judo, Gracie Barra Jiu-Jitsu, Olympic Tae Kwon Doe
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Yeh, thats where BJJ breaks down- when the attacker has friends.
The thing with Judo is that you aren't going to finish someone unless you are able to throw just that hard or into something like a fire hydrant. Also, and I'm quite not the fan of TKD-but try to get close enough to throw against someone who's trained in kicks nonstop and nothing else- you will have a broken arm or rib by the time you get close enough, then can you effectively throw?
Nothing against- I heart Judo. It's just a sport- less a martial art- and as much as it is a MA, it's more an art and less martial, I think.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12964
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| marie curie wrote: |
Yeh, thats where BJJ breaks down- when the attacker has friends.
The thing with Judo is that you aren't going to finish someone unless you are able to throw just that hard or into something like a fire hydrant. Also, and I'm quite not the fan of TKD-but try to get close enough to throw against someone who's trained in kicks nonstop and nothing else- you will have a broken arm or rib by the time you get close enough, then can you effectively throw?
Nothing against- I heart Judo. It's just a sport- less a martial art- and as much as it is a MA, it's more an art and less martial, I think. |
This is all really going to depend on how it is applied. If you train in a self-defense mind set, you can make it work.
Being in TKD, even through the kicking, it still isn't a problem to get inside and illicit a throw or takedown. In fact, the more time you spend standing on one leg, the more vulnerable you make yourself to a takedown or throw.
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ninjer
Yellow Belt
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| marie curie wrote: |
Yeh, thats where BJJ breaks down- when the attacker has friends. The thing with Judo is that you aren't going to finish someone unless you are able to throw just that hard or into something like a fire hydrant. Also, and I'm quite not the fan of TKD-but try to get close enough to throw against someone who's trained in kicks nonstop and nothing else- you will have a broken arm or rib by the time you get close enough, then can you effectively throw?
Nothing against- I heart Judo. It's just a sport- less a martial art- and as much as it is a MA, it's more an art and less martial, I think. |
Thats where EVERY martial art breaks down- the only difference is that BJJ acknowledges it... |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 12964
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo,Hapkido, SCA Combat, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| ninjer wrote: |
| marie curie wrote: |
Yeh, thats where BJJ breaks down- when the attacker has friends. The thing with Judo is that you aren't going to finish someone unless you are able to throw just that hard or into something like a fire hydrant. Also, and I'm quite not the fan of TKD-but try to get close enough to throw against someone who's trained in kicks nonstop and nothing else- you will have a broken arm or rib by the time you get close enough, then can you effectively throw?
Nothing against- I heart Judo. It's just a sport- less a martial art- and as much as it is a MA, it's more an art and less martial, I think. |
Thats where EVERY martial art breaks down- the only difference is that BJJ acknowledges it... |
Extremely good point. There really is no Martial Art that is effective against multiple attackers.
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ninjer
Yellow Belt
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| marie curie wrote: |
Yeh, thats where BJJ breaks down- when the attacker has friends.
The thing with Judo is that you aren't going to finish someone unless you are able to throw just that hard or into something like a fire hydrant. Also, and I'm quite not the fan of TKD-but try to get close enough to throw against someone who's trained in kicks nonstop and nothing else- you will have a broken arm or rib by the time you get close enough, then can you effectively throw?
Nothing against- I heart Judo. It's just a sport- less a martial art- and as much as it is a MA, it's more an art and less martial, I think. |
Its actually quite easy to close the distance with people who are kickers, much moreso than you would think. That was one of the problems of martial arts prior to UFC- everyone thought that their strikes were so deadly that you couldnt close the distance without getting severely injured.
This is a classic vid- Royce Gracie vs Jason Delucia in their first matchup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjK0g-cDJI4&mode=related&search=
Another against a karate school:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-SltgKQHDU
Its much more challenging to close the distance with someone who's a good puncher rather than a good kicker. Even then, its not difficult if you have a little bit of grappling experience (and assuming your opponent has none) |
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 987
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Even in boxing matches though, you'll often see the two fighters get into a clinch at least once. Of course all they can do from that point is throw short range body shots due to the constraints of boxing rules, but that would be the perfect range for a throw or take down
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ninjer
Yellow Belt
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| NightOwl wrote: |
| Even in boxing matches though, you'll often see the two fighters get into a clinch at least once. Of course all they can do from that point is throw short range body shots due to the constraints of boxing rules, but that would be the perfect range for a throw or take down |
Thanks for posting that so I didnt have to. Think about it for a minute- here are two people who cant be anymore striking oriented, and their natrual instinct is still to grab their opponent. |
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on the post.
