Karate Shotokan or Kyokushinkai

ahmad abou taleb · White Belt

[quote="Wado Heretic"]In their competition formats both neglect strikes to the head, and body-to-body combat, which are very real dangers in self-defence. Usually; Kyokushin is the better choice for self-defence due to the full-contact tradition, and the intensity of training because of it. However, with more dojo moving towards kata application, and incorporating methods from kick-boxing and free-fighting; this is not the determining edge it once was.

If the Shotokan dojo provides sufficient conditioning, and application (bunkai training) then it can be effective self-defence. So check both dojo, and go with the one which has the better approach to self-defence. Drills which are for self-defence (not just traditional kumite), and kata application, as well as suitable conditioning methods for self-defence are what you should look for.[/quote]

with all my respect to you ! just in order to give the full true information to our friends, so I wanna correct some wrong information you gave my friend!
First of all as an Kyokushin karate black belt(shodan 1dan) i advice you to choose the Kyokushin for it full contact, so it give you an advantage against other martial arts, for it's based on direct kick and punches to the body, in addition, it teaches you how to raise and moderate your endurance.
Secondly, I just wanna talk about the competition parts! In both karate styles competition, we use the scoring system which is divided into 3 types of grades(yuko 1p, I'll Waza-ari 2p, and ippon 3p) I'll explain in detail the difference, and how to score. starting by Kyokushin it's prohibited to the player to punch the face so it will be considered as a foul, and we'll score point for every effective punch or kick, but kick in the head get scored as Ippon 3 points, and every throw to the ground is scored as a waza ari 2 points, and every effective punch is scored as yuko 1 point.
in the other hand in Shotokan competition, it's permitted to punch or kick the face but it's prohibited to kick any kind of low kicks.also ippon is awarded when u kick the opponent head or u throw him to the ground. waza-ari is awarded when u kick a chudan kick(middle kick). and finally, yuko is awarded when u punch the opponent body or face!
and i'll be posting a detailed article about Shotokan and another one about Kyokushin rules and competitions

Wado Heretic · Green Belt

To clarify what I meant by neglecting head-strikes; as you have stated, punches (or any hand-strikes) to the head are prohibited in knock-down rules. Also, only a single point is awarded for a successful hand strike to the head under current WKF rules, compared to the three awarded for a successful kick to the head or two for a successful kick to the body.

In free-fighting, kick-boxing, and self-defence effective hand-skills are fundamental for success. However, the above rules change the Mai-ai used; they encourage a distance where delivering high kicks is adopted, which is not reflective of actual self-defence. This is why I stated that they neglect head-strikes; boxing skills, and effective use of the hands to control distance, have proven to be necessary in sports such as MMA, but are also key to many effective self-defence strategies. When you cannot punch to the head, or the rule set makes it less advantageous to do so; even if you allow strikes to the head of some sort, you are still neglecting head strikes.
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R. Keith Williams

Zukinatic · White Belt

What matters is a good instructors and what you are personally seeking to accomplish. I've trained in both and started with kyokushin first but did not commit to it because I had a bad instructor unfortunately. I was attracted to shotokan and appreciated the philosophy of the art. I still train to this day and haven't looked back.

JR 137 · Black Belt

Wado Heretic · Green Belt

That was not my intended inference; I was speaking strictly in the context of the competition format. You fight how you train; if you train to be effective in your competition format, while neglecting other aspects of fighting; that is dangerous. However, I did not intend to infer that training is always directed by the competition format. I believed the context, that is the discussion was about competition fighting, sufficiently illustrated what the point I was making was about. That the competition formats, not the styles in of themselves, neglect head-strikes.

With that said, in the broader sense, it ultimately comes down to the dojo/gym/club as well. If it is competition focused, and spars only according to the competition rules exclusively; then the argument could be made that the training regime neglects head-strikes. That though, is not what I was talking about; I was talking about the competition rules. Plus, the above scenario is incredibly rare, if not in fact nonexistent.

Hopefully that further clarifies the meaning of my post.
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R. Keith Williams

JR 137 · Black Belt

I quoted your post, but my intention was to make a generalized statement. I probably shouldn't have quoted your post specifically.

I've seen a ton of posts/blogs/etc. all over the internet stating Kyokushin doesn't teach head punching and defending it. I guess my post was intended to offer a counterpoint to the overwhelming notion.

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