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gunner
Yellow Belt
Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Posts: 61
Styles: Karate
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 Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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I can kick to the head of a average male with all kicks but I rarely if ever kick higher than the rib cage when sparring except with roundhouses and crescent kicks. The reason is simple - they are too slow. Since speed is the distance divided by time, the simplest way to speed up a kick is to halve the distance. Side kicks, back kicks and front kicks go to the abdomen or rib cage. One other thing is I have had great success kicking to the hip of my opponent to knock them off balance. Just be sure to keep your balance so you can charge them when they are back pedaling. Hope this helps!
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Sparring is honesty the rest is art.
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
I can do rising kick straight, head level, axe kick, Crescent kick, but not roundhouse or sidekick...
My style is ITF Taekwon-Do - Korean karate. That is to say emphasis on kicks but all the hand techniques (plus some) from Shotokan. I don't know if roundhouse kick is head level in any form but even if it isn't, it's still pretty alarming that I can't perform it head high correctly after two years. |
High turning kicks (both legs) is in Hwa-Rang at 2nd gup. Then at every grade above that there is at least one pattern per grade that has a high side or high turning kick.
That said I wouldn't sweat it. I've been doing ITF TKD for 16 years now... still struggle with my flexibility with high roundhouses being particularly difficult for me. Instructors will prefer good mechanics over reaching too high for a kick and should make allowances for ability. As long as you know it should be high section by the book, you can perform at a low level with correct mechanics.
Only way to improve it is stretch, build strength, and learn the correct mechanics: https://youtu.be/r1O2aMq0akU |
I don't think there is high side kick in any form. People do it only to brag that they can. |
High side in both Juche and Moon-Moo |
I guess it depends on how you define High. The encyclopedia states high but the performers look more like middle section turning kick in Hwa rang.
http://www.swanma.com/Lib/TKD/FullEnc/Vol10/#p=174 |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Prototype wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
I don't think there is high side kick in any form. People do it only to brag that they can. |
High side in both Juche and Moon-Moo |
I guess it depends on how you define High. The encyclopedia states high but the performers look more like middle section turning kick in Hwa rang.
http://www.swanma.com/Lib/TKD/FullEnc/Vol10/#p=174 |
Not sure which ITF or instructor you are with but high is defined as above the shoulder line. High means high. If you have the ability, both the side kids in Juche and Moon Moo must be performed like this. You would be marked down at gradings and tournaments for anything lower and would be expected to know that they are written as nopunde.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
I don't think there is high side kick in any form. People do it only to brag that they can. |
High side in both Juche and Moon-Moo |
I guess it depends on how you define High. The encyclopedia states high but the performers look more like middle section turning kick in Hwa rang.
http://www.swanma.com/Lib/TKD/FullEnc/Vol10/#p=174 |
Not sure which ITF or instructor you are with but high is defined as above the shoulder line. High means high. If you have the ability, both the side kids in Juche and Moon Moo must be performed like this. You would be marked down at gradings and tournaments for anything lower and would be expected to know that they are written as nopunde. |
Are any exceptions made by the governing body and/or tournaments and/or the CI for disabilities?? I see ATA doing that quite often, especially in the dojang. I know a man that's 54 years old, and he can't kick high at all, and he's just earned his black belt in the ATA.
Just how strict is the high kick requirement, if at all??
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Prototype
Green Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
I don't think there is high side kick in any form. People do it only to brag that they can. |
High side in both Juche and Moon-Moo |
I guess it depends on how you define High. The encyclopedia states high but the performers look more like middle section turning kick in Hwa rang.
http://www.swanma.com/Lib/TKD/FullEnc/Vol10/#p=174 |
Not sure which ITF or instructor you are with but high is defined as above the shoulder line. High means high. If you have the ability, both the side kids in Juche and Moon Moo must be performed like this. You would be marked down at gradings and tournaments for anything lower and would be expected to know that they are written as nopunde. |
Did you not take the few seconds to actually watch the photo in the encyclopedia? The performer did not kick above his own shoulder level. |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Prototype wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
| DWx wrote: |
| Prototype wrote: |
I don't think there is high side kick in any form. People do it only to brag that they can. |
High side in both Juche and Moon-Moo |
I guess it depends on how you define High. The encyclopedia states high but the performers look more like middle section turning kick in Hwa rang.
http://www.swanma.com/Lib/TKD/FullEnc/Vol10/#p=174 |
Not sure which ITF or instructor you are with but high is defined as above the shoulder line. High means high. If you have the ability, both the side kids in Juche and Moon Moo must be performed like this. You would be marked down at gradings and tournaments for anything lower and would be expected to know that they are written as nopunde. |
Did you not take the few seconds to actually watch the photo in the encyclopedia? The performer did not kick above his own shoulder level. |
I know what's in the Encyclopedia. I have it sitting on my shelf. The 15 volumes set isn't perfect as there are a number of errors but page 118 of Volume 10 shows the high turning kick above the shoulder under the "Additional Techniques" for Hwa Rang. Personally I think the Condensed Encyclopedia is a better resource sometimes as that was revised and updated several times.
As to your original question of high side kicks, have a look at page 312 in Vol 12. Pictures clearly show the kick to head height.
Rather than the pictures I would go by the definition of a high kick, Vol 4 Page 20 states:
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"High Kick (Nopunde Chagi)
If the attacking tool reaches the same level of the attacker's eyes at the moment of impact, it is called a high attack. The attacking tool can reach the temple, philtrum, armpit, solar plexus or other vital spots depending on the height of the opponents." |
I recommend you attend an ITS (or IIC when you reach blackbelt). Whichever ITF you're in they will clarify how they want the kick performed.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Are any exceptions made by the governing body and/or tournaments and/or the CI for disabilities?? I see ATA doing that quite often, especially in the dojang. I know a man that's 54 years old, and he can't kick high at all, and he's just earned his black belt in the ATA.
Just how strict is the high kick requirement, if at all??
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At gradings its down to the discretion of the examiners what they want to see. Generally they would rather see a technically correct kick at a lower level than a student reach too high and get the mechanics wrong and lose their balance. In our school there are a number of older students who kick below hip level and as long as the mechanics are correct it is fine.
On the other hand if the examiners knows that the student is flexible or hasn't made any effort to improve their flexibility and they kick low, they would be marked down because they haven't executed the correct technique.
For disability, modifications can be made to suit the student and the examiner should be pre-warned about this if they don't already know the student.
In all cases, whether they physically kick high or not, the student should still know that the kick in that particular form is meant to be performed high and be able to say where the theoretical target is.
Tournaments is a different thing. For actual disability, the head umpire should be informed and then they would direct the other umpires accordingly to not penalise for modifications. If it's just an ability thing, then unfortunately its tough luck. Though it would only be a 1 point deduction.
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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brickshooter
Green Belt
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 443
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| IMO, people unable to kick high should work hard at developing mid level kicks that can fold a person in half, and foot sweeps that throws a person on their back. You work with your strenght rather than try to catch up and be mediocre |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
Are any exceptions made by the governing body and/or tournaments and/or the CI for disabilities?? I see ATA doing that quite often, especially in the dojang. I know a man that's 54 years old, and he can't kick high at all, and he's just earned his black belt in the ATA.
Just how strict is the high kick requirement, if at all??
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At gradings its down to the discretion of the examiners what they want to see. Generally they would rather see a technically correct kick at a lower level than a student reach too high and get the mechanics wrong and lose their balance. In our school there are a number of older students who kick below hip level and as long as the mechanics are correct it is fine.
On the other hand if the examiners knows that the student is flexible or hasn't made any effort to improve their flexibility and they kick low, they would be marked down because they haven't executed the correct technique.
For disability, modifications can be made to suit the student and the examiner should be pre-warned about this if they don't already know the student.
In all cases, whether they physically kick high or not, the student should still know that the kick in that particular form is meant to be performed high and be able to say where the theoretical target is.
Tournaments is a different thing. For actual disability, the head umpire should be informed and then they would direct the other umpires accordingly to not penalise for modifications. If it's just an ability thing, then unfortunately its tough luck. Though it would only be a 1 point deduction. |
I concur wholeheartedly!!
It's all about communications with whomever oversees the venue, whether it be a testing cycle and/or a tournament. High kicks are well known to be a vital staple of TKD, however, exceptions should be made on a situation to situation, and not on a wide stroke of the brush.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Dani_001
Orange Belt
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
Posts: 137
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Styles: Okinawa Goju-Ryu Karatedo Kyokai
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:39 am Post subject: |
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There was only three kicks initially in Karate, well, in Goju Ryu that I know of. Also as Kusotare stated, Mawashi is an illegal immigrant haha. In tradional Okinawa Karate, you only find these in kata:
Mae geri, kansetsu geri and hiza geri.
Seeing that Karate was developed for self defense, it would be pointless to raise the leg any higher because it takes longer to execute.
Mae geri in competition is to kick above the belt, but a real mae geri is to not kick to the abdominal area, but actually to the bladder. Because bladder is not protected by bone or muscle, it is a soft and sensitive area.
I wouldn't worry too much if I was you, but still aspire or try to attain higher kicks for flexibility. When the masters went to Japan, they then saw all these fancy kicks and these only adopted it as part of KIHON, and training drills. Nothing more.
I hope that I am correct in the waza and kihon aspect of my post.
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on the post.
