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Andrew_Patton
Orange Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Michigan, USA
Styles: kobayashi shorin-ryu, matayoshi kobudo, sui-kendo, Kodokan Judo, BJJ, Kyokushin
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 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:52 am Post subject: |
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I think a kiai is a good thing, just if you keep your teeth and jaw closed, none of them hollywood, mouth wide-open screem at the top of your lungs typles of kiais for me... I do something that I've seen a few thai boxers (melchor menor for example) breath out and make a noise while keeping my teeth and jaw clenched, it works, adds power, and feels good.
To be honest, I'd questioned the 'traditional' (in quotations because we don't know how traditional it is) kiai method for years before trying it my way, and haven't gone back. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13960
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew_Patton wrote: |
| I think a kiai is a good thing, just if you keep your teeth and jaw closed, none of them hollywood, mouth wide-open screem at the top of your lungs typles of kiais for me... |
I don't think that there is anything wrong with a kiai performed like this...in fact, many cultures have used war yells like this in their histories.
You just have to use it in the right place and time.
_________________
Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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baronbvp
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1132
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: JKD/MMA, Muay Thai, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| many cultures have used war yells like this in their histories. You just have to use it in the right place and time. |
The rebel yell was very effective, but it was done by huge groups of attacking Confederate soldiers trying to incite fear in Northern soldiers in a mob way while blostering their own courage.
Kiais are different, in my opinion.
_________________
Only as good as I make myself be, only as bad as I let myself be.
Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move. |
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Ottman
Blue Belt
Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 346
Location: Boston
Styles: Tae Kwon Do, Jeet Kune Do (Concepts), Brazilian Ju Jitsu, Capoeira, Samurai combative arts (Nami Ryu Aiki Heiho)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| baronbvp wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| many cultures have used war yells like this in their histories. You just have to use it in the right place and time. |
The rebel yell was very effective, but it was done by huge groups of attacking Confederate soldiers trying to incite fear in Northern soldiers in a mob way while blostering their own courage.
Kiais are different, in my opinion. |
Mine too. A war yell is primal and used to raise your adrenaline into a frenzy type level. It's more about the group than about the individual. A kiai is about controlling you energy. It still raises adrenaline levels, but in a far more concentrated, controlled manner, which is focused into a single momentary event. It focuses your whole being on that one fraction of a second. Much different than a war cry.
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Tae Kwon Do - 3rd Dan, Instructor
Brazilian Ju Jitsu - Purple Belt, Level 1 Instructor |
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Andrew_Patton
Orange Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Michigan, USA
Styles: kobayashi shorin-ryu, matayoshi kobudo, sui-kendo, Kodokan Judo, BJJ, Kyokushin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| well of course the big yell kiai (as long as it isn't a scream (ewww...)) has it's spot in Martial arts, but it definately isn't the kind of thing you want unleashing when you throw that big punch or side-kick out. Like I said, I've found the same results while keeping my mouth closed, yet kiai-ing simultaneously. to me it just feels more natural |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 13960
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Ottman wrote: |
| baronbvp wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| many cultures have used war yells like this in their histories. You just have to use it in the right place and time. |
The rebel yell was very effective, but it was done by huge groups of attacking Confederate soldiers trying to incite fear in Northern soldiers in a mob way while blostering their own courage.
Kiais are different, in my opinion. |
Mine too. A war yell is primal and used to raise your adrenaline into a frenzy type level. It's more about the group than about the individual. A kiai is about controlling you energy. It still raises adrenaline levels, but in a far more concentrated, controlled manner, which is focused into a single momentary event. It focuses your whole being on that one fraction of a second. Much different than a war cry. |
I think that the kiai actually gets its origins from the group war yell of the ancients. It really all goes back to the same thing. The kiai, the war yell, the grunt of exertion when maxing out the bench press, and even when football and basketball players let out a shout when de-cleating someone or stuffing the basket home. They all have essentially the same goal, and the same origins, in my opinion.
_________________
Success is where preparation meets opportunity.
www.chiefswarpath.com |
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Chuilli, Kyo Sah Nim
Orange Belt
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Mass
Styles: Tang Soo Do/Chinese Kempo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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We ki-hap in training and i think it is very useful, firstly when people ask why i say it is intimidating when done right, secondly it helps make you loose becuase you cant hit things(i.e. boards) when completely rigid, and thirdly it sparks energy, and lastly, when you know you are going to get hit and can do nothing about it, if you ki hap and let the energy out as the technique hits you and the energy comes in and you tighten up at the same time, it could make the difference between a broken rib and a bruised rib.
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K.Chuilli
2nd Dan, Instructor
Kyo Sah Nim
Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do |
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Kajukenbopr
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 933
Styles: Kajukenbo - Emperado Method
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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chinese styles prefer to breathe normally. you keep your breath and u learn to keep more relaxed.
it allows more receptivity, more freedom of movement, etc.
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<<Kajukenbopr>> Be humble, train hard, fight dirty |
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NightOwl
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 988
Location: Japan
Styles: This and that, Rookie Judo
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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A great many of the examples being given are about kiaiing (sp?) when throwing or taking a hit, which in moderation I agree with to a degree (unleashing a flurry of blows and letting out a big kiai as you land the last one does sound nice). But one of the aspects that I don't like is the big kiai before you fight (not breaking a board). In my TKD days, we were taught to let out a big kiyap and then get into a defensive stance, but I was thinking that this only serves to put your opponent on his guard more...unless of course you look like Conan or something which in that case you can pretty much just say 'hi' to the same effect.
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Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
~Theodore Roosevelt |
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repz
Yellow Belt
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 37
Styles: Shorinji Kempo
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Kiai...good or bad? |
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| NightOwl wrote: |
| What are your thoughts on this? Are they necessary? How do they help? In my younger years of TKD it was encouraged to Kiai before an attack (in sparring or breaks). Personally I think that to do a battle cry well telegraph that you know martial arts, thus putting your attacker on their guard. |
I always hated the kiai. Today i have a sore throat so imma get away with out kiain in training.
As for as its usefullness an drawbacks... dont know. Its just part of karate/tkd, i never questioned it. People have been doing kiais since before karate, you know when you lift that huge cabinet your like, " Argggggghaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!!!", an you get that extra boost of adrenaline, that to me is a kiai. |
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on the post.
