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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Kyonovice wrote: |
| I will speak to him on Friday |
Sounds good! Please let us know what your Sensei says! Until then, train hard and train well!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| Kyonovice wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| There are a ton of Kyokushin groups nowadays doing a lot of different things. The only way to know what to expect is to ask your sensei. We'd all be guessing. |
Welcome to KF; glad that you're here!!
I wholeheartedly concur!!
I believe that you'll be slowing introduced into sparing, and that you'd not be going full throttle until the appropriate time, and not sooner.
Please let us know how things are going!
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Ossu
Will do, hopefully my sensei does ease me in gently as I don't particularly want to end up black and blue |
Fastest way to lose students is to make them black and blue; conditioning is important and a beginner isn't conditioned. Old school mindset was...condition WHILST being made black and blue. However, that mindset, has changed, not entirely, to protect the student and the student body. Not the physical body, but the number of students enrolled in a dojo.
I can't emphasis enough, and I agree with JR 137...ask YOUR SENSEI!!
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It used to be that you were a punching bag for upper ranks from day one. The mentality was that was how you were conditioned and if you didn't come back, you would have quit sooner than later anyway, so no big loss.
Hopefully those days are over. My former and current sensei was brought up this way and learned the hard way why not to do it. Tadashi Nakamura (Kyokushin legend and founder of Seido Juku, which I'm in) stopped that when he founded Seido. In his autobiography, he wrote that he wondered how many potentially great karateka he lost because of it. I wholeheartedly agree with that. |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| This confirms the idea that there are much more intelligent and effective ways of training than just getting hit. Contact is an important part of complete training but it ought to be done with the aim of learning. If contact is the sole purpose or if it is done to dominate others, it loses its effectiveness as a training and teaching method. |
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Kyokushin Sparring |
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| Kyonovice wrote: |
Hi everyone
First post.
I have been told I am going to start doing some sparring soon in my lessons as, despite being a novice, it is needed for my first grading (is this true for most Kyokushin clubs?)
I've not done sparring in Kyokushin before and, having watched some clips of knockout sparring, it seems brutal! What can I expect? I Have been told by Sensei that it's points knockout and that it was developed by someone who became a bit disconcerted with how knock down was going (2 guys slogging it out blow for blow) and introduced this system where by they still score points for a clean strike but the aim is to ultimately knock down your opponent.
So, what can I expect? What "rules" are there and what equipment should I really have???
Any help would be greatly appreciated! |
Hello Kyonovice!
I'll answer directly initially maybe we can build from there to be sure we go in the right direction!
You ask:
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| "I have been told I am going to start doing some sparring soon in my lessons as, despite being a novice, it is needed for my first grading (is this true for most Kyokushin clubs?)" |
For some yes, In my Kyokushin career I had to fight for each grade I attempted, my last grading I had 20 fights!
It is however, (nowadays) a club desire, some do fight for every grade, others only fight at high grades, say 4 or 5 kyu and above, it really depends on the club.
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| "I've not done sparring in Kyokushin before and, having watched some clips of knockout sparring, it seems brutal!" |
What you have most likely watched is national, European and most certainly world tournaments, which means you have been watching the very best fighters in the world, guys at the top of there game compete to be "the" best fighter in the world!
We do fight 'bare knuckle', where most other wear pads, we do not, Kyokushinkai was the very first 'official' system to fight 'bare knuckle'!
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| "What can I expect?" |
Dedicated teachers and students who will work with you, push you to be the very best you can be. The result will be a rewarding wholesome feeling, assuming it is what you are looking for.
We call the pinnacle of Kyokushin combat 'Knockdown', its called knock down because that is the whole point of the contest, to 'knockdown' the other guy.
There is a points aspect to 'knockdown' fights, an example would be a fighter is 'swept' to the floor and hte attacker follows up with a controlled attack. (Not a full punch for example) demonstrating there complete dominance of the other fighter.
A point , A wasari' might be awarded to the attacker.
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"... it was developed by someone who became a bit disconcerted with how knock down was going (2 guys slogging it out blow for blow) and introduced this system where by they still score points for a clean strike but the aim is to ultimately knock down your opponent." |
This guys name and title was Sosai Mas Oyama, he was 'upset' about how 'fights' were performed, and famously undertook to change that and to that end he worked hard to develop a new fighting art, which for a while was called 'Oyama' karate and he went around other dojos to test it and him self.
In time he changed the name from Oyama karate to 'Kyokushinkai'.
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| "So, what can I expect?" |
A truly great system that if you persist in will reward you and fill you, you body, your soul with a massive sense of achievement.
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"What "rules" are there and what equipment should I really have?" |
There are rules, my first tournament had me study a booklet, 5 pages or so talking about what could be done and what was not allowed.
They are clear and as there are different groups of Kyokushin organisations, the rule do vary between them, so the real answer is it depends on which one you join.
As to equipment, well thats a Gi (karate suit), a box(protect the man bits) and you... yup that's it covered all your equipment! 
Osu!!
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate.
Last edited by Hawkmoon on Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kyonovice
Orange Belt
Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Wow, thank you for such an in depth reply!
In regards to the "guy", I was not referring to Oyama in that, according to my sensei, another Kyokushin practitioner had become disillusioned with how Kyokushin sparring had gone. A better explanation is probably that he (whoever it was) looked at Kyokushin and saw that it had gone too much towards a "this is a contest to see who can hit hardest for longest" and realised that technique had been lost to a degree (does that make sense?) Due to this, he introduced points for clean techniques but with the ultimate aim being to knock down your opponent. |
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:17 am Post subject: |
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... not sure I follow you or who you refer to!
But like I say there are lots of groups out there and 100% I do no know all of them!
The 'slug fest matches' were a thing that started to become more and more regular as fighters worked harder and harder to be the best.
The IFK for example made a rule that fighters could not 'grab' another during a fight, something the IKO allows.
What is your group called?
IFK, IKO... some thing else??
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Hawkmoon wrote: |
... not sure I follow you or who you refer to!
But like I say there are lots of groups out there and 100% I do no know all of them!
The 'slug fest matches' were a thing that started to become more and more regular as fighters worked harder and harder to be the best.
The IFK for example made a rule that fighters could not 'grab' another during a fight, something the IKO allows.
What is your group called?
IFK, IKO... some thing else?? |
There's so many splinter groups in Kyokushin. It's so hard to follow who's teaching what. Unfortunate, IMO. |
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Agreed!
I am aware of a move towards re-unification, but it is in the very very early stages of doing that from the little I can see and read.
Question:
Kyonovice and what he talks about does it sound like Seido Juku to you maybe?
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Kyonovice
Orange Belt
Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Its part if something called the world independent budokai who they are, I do not know. |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Hawkmoon wrote: |
Agreed!
I am aware of a move towards re-unification, but it is in the very very early stages of doing that from the little I can see and read.
Question:
Kyonovice and what he talks about does it sound like Seido Juku to you maybe? |
No. We don't do point sparring nor knockdown. Point sparring is done for people who want to compete in it, and an annual tournament is held, but there's no requirement for it, nor is it part of grading. We do do continuous sparring, like knockdown, only there's not (typically) the same amount of force thrown behind the technique. Yes, Kyokushin is controlled contact, but Seido Juku is more controlled. If Kyokushin is, say, throwing 70% of maximum power without protective gear, we're throwing 60% with gear on. I guess it could be summed up as take Kyokushin sparring, add gear, and ease up a bit on the amount of force you're striking with. Different dojos allow different amounts of force, then different students give and take different amounts too. I can comfortably hit some students harder than others; it all depends on who's in front of me and what they're comfortable with. |
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on the post.
