Martial arts and guns

dafabe · Yellow Belt

I am glad we dont have guns in this contry (UK). They are evil and look at the state some placecs in the USA are due to guns, althought there is some about you are alot less likely to find someone running around with a gun in the jacket, anywhere, the dodgy areas in the city I live Glasgow (Scotland) , the guy are generalt just knife weilding hard men.

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Ti-Kwon-Leap · Blue Belt

A couple of fast games of paintball would change a few opinions on the efficacy of what a gun can do in the hands of a capable assailant.
Also, if an officer pulling a gun just stands in one place while someone tackles him ...Well he's just stupid.

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"Annoying the ignorant since 1961"

Bon · Black Belt

Ti-Kwon-Leap · Blue Belt

And your point is what?
I pull a gun and it really doesn't matter how fast you run towards me or away, that is unless you can dodge bullets like Kwai Chang.
I don't know what kind of paintball you play but I'm talking about indoor close quarter dodge or die paintball with things to hide behind, not "Deliverance" paintball.
My point is that a determined, unflinching, adept gunman is not easy to deter, that is unless you are a totally sweet Ninja with awesome blinding powder and smoke bomb escape.

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[ This Message was edited by: Ti-Kwon-Leap on 2002-07-11 03:19 ]

:-)-: · Blue Belt

A lot of people are worried that gun training would shatter the traditional aspects of martial arts. But in truth, martial artists of the Far East have been using guns longer than Europeans knew guns existed!

Shotguns have been around since the 1100s; cannons and missiles are even older. Japanese riflemen have been part of fuedal warfare since way back when. And even today, Jiu Long Baguazhang, an art used by Chinese bodyguards, teaches gunfighting. It was originally with M10 Mausers, but they probably use something more modern now.

Either way, to deny guns is ridiculous. Guns are a powerful weapon. They are not very useful close-range, but anywhere else, they're the ultimate weapon. That doesn't mean an empty-handed martial artist can do nothing against a gun, but a bullet should be respected as part of the martial arts arsenal.

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Withers M.A.A. · Brown Belt

dafabe guns are not evil. It is an inanimate object that does nothing on its own therefore can not be good or evil. THe person holding the weapon determines its usage.

I apply my martial arts training with my firearms training. Many of the principals are the same.

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2nd Degree black belt in Kenpo Karate and Tae Kwon Do. 1997 NASKA competitor-2nd place Nationally in Blackbelt American Forms. Firearms activist!

:-)-: · Blue Belt

I thought this over, and I think I know why people are uncomfortable with guns:

They can only be used for attack. And generally, they can only be used to kill.

Think about it.

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Don Gwinn · Orange Belt

Smiley,
I've thought about it and it's nonsense. Can you even attempt to explain how it's possible that a gun can only be used for attack when the best estimates are that Americans alone use guns for defense at least 1.5 million times each and every year, the vast majority without firing a shot (thus no one gets a scratch, much less dies.)

Also, the majority of people shot do not die. The majority of gunshot wounds are survived.

Not only CAN guns be used for defense, they quite often are. And not only CAN guns be used for other purposes than "to kill someone," but in the vast majority of cases they are.

Also, whoever taught you that guns are not much use at close range had not tested the theory. Guns are exceedingly useful weapons at most ranges, which is what makes them so useful. They are more versatile than most other weapon types.

Dafabe,
Are you high or something? Guns are evil? Are toothpicks and scented candles evil, or are they good? How did these inanimate objects acquire souls and wills? I own several firearms and not one has ever escaped to go on a killing spree. They do exactly what I make them do, the same as all my other tools. I shoot at targets, so they shoot at targets. I don't hurt people, so neither do they. If you were just indulging in a rhetorical flourish, that's fine, but if a firearm has ever talked to you, threatened you, etc, you might want to talk to a professional.

CKStudent,
LOL. For a moment I was trying to figure out where you lived with no firearms laws. Closest I could think of was Vermont. Then I remembered you live in the UK and realized what you must have meant.

Bottom Line.
If you train in martial arts in order to learn to fight, if that's any part of your reasoning, and you ignore firearms, you are willfully throwing away a very valuable facet of your study. If your government is too oppressive to trust the peasants with arms, I guess you're stuck, but you Americans have no excuse.

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* Ignorant Taekwondo beginner.

http://www.thefiringline.com

:-)-: · Blue Belt

'Ey, just 'cause you're a redneck doesn't mean you have to get * off so easily. Most guns (unless you pack tranqs in yours) are potentially lethal. Any weapon can be used to deter an enemy, as a gun does, but a gun cannot effectively defend. It can either attack or not attack. And when it does attack, it can either do massive damage or kill.

Any weapon can do anything. I read about a cop in Germany who chased a drunk guy down the Autobahn at 85 mph, then shot him twice in the shoulder. Perfect aim at that speed. But that is the exception, not the rule.

All I'm saying is this: the INTENTION of a gun is to either deter or kill. There are more effective weapons for laying an enemy flat without hurting them badly, an enemy than a gun, such as a jo staff or shinai.

That is why many people are naturally uncomfortable around guns. They are not designed to restrain, they are designed to kill, effectively. You can simply injure your target with them, but that's not a gun's purpose. That is why people are uncomfortable with them.

That's all I'm trying to say.

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tsdstud · Orange Belt

I agree with Kicker, I think that it would not be good in the martial arts, kind of defeat the purpose. But, gun defense should definately be taught.

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