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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30167
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very solid point, Truestar. I think that there isn't enough of that going on.
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RichardZ
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Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624


PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mas was Korean by birth, did he actually study any Korean martial arts?
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think his study was in the Japanese styles, but so where those of Hwang Kee and General Choi.
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RichardZ
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may not be deniable that Korean arts have been influenced heavily by Japanese arts and there may nit be any true Korean martial art lineage still in existence.

Last edited by RichardZ on Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I'd say that there really isn't. What the Koreans did do is really take kicking and make it their own. But to claim 5000 year lineages to TKD....nothing to substaniate that.
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RichardZ
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't blame the Koreans for trying to create a national past time. They have been de-cultured by heavy Japanese influences. Asian pride, known as "face" is still strong in the East

Last edited by RichardZ on Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand the motivation behind the actions. But, that doesn't make it right.
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tonydee
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Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 253
Location: Japan
Styles: 24 yrs kong soo do, 3 yrs hapkido, bits of others

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Right" often isn't a significant concern for military regimes, which is what Korea was for much of the time the deception was being propagated. They were more concerned about promoting national pride and confidence than history / truth, and of all the countries whose contributions they might have acknowledged, Japan would understandably have been at the bottom of the list.

You could argue that Korea made kicking their own, but the sad thing is that it didn't last: the sports emphasis in modern TKD compromised it again. The would-be pinnacle of that - the "Korean Tigers" demo team - set a bad direction for flashy kicks: paper-thin "boards" and kicks no more practical, and a lot less gymnastically impressive, than many kids into "extreme martial arts". And while ITF hasn't slid as far, I think they've dropped the ball too.

Likening martial arts to cooking: some dishes are famously indefinite - you add whatever you have and modify things to suit yourself, teach someone and they know they can modify it freely too. But, sometimes a dish is just right the way it is, and that spirit of casual experimentation is less useful than a profound understanding of the existing recipe, which may already incorporate an accumulation of subtle fine-tuning. So, the morale of the story is: don't mess with Nobu's cod, especially you Americans with your tomato ketchup ;-P.

Yes, I'll seek help....
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RichardZ
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Joined: 03 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonydee wrote:
"Likening martial arts to cooking: some dishes are famously indefinite - you add whatever you have and modify things to suit yourself, teach someone and they know they can modify it freely too. But, sometimes a dish is just right the way it is, and that spirit of casual experimentation is less useful than a profound understanding of the existing recipe, which may already incorporate an accumulation of subtle fine-tuning. So, the morale of the story is: don't mess with Nobu's cod, especially you Americans with your tomato ketchup ;-P.
Yes, I'll seek help....


If no dishes were experimented, then there will be no famous recipes to begin with. Food is best when it is tried and nurrowed from a existing recipe. each according to the taste of the cukture which has designed it and relishes it.
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taepan01
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Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 4
Location: Northampton MA USA
Styles: ITF TKD

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Gen. Choi and Oyama Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

I think it's important to keep in mind that WTF and ITF TKD are almost two different martial arts with very little in common. WTF is more a sport with a poor foundation based on politics over logic developed by a man who never really practiced martial arts Un Yong Kim. The drech in the Olympics is just something for people who do other martial arts to look at and use to disparage real TKD. No punches to the head, and fall down after every kick, seriously? where as ITF is a well thought out scientifically applied martial art developed by a man who spent his life developing it on sound scientific principals.

Oyama and Gen Choi where friends and agreed on so many things that they agreed to become brothers both legally and emotionally. A marriage of their martial arts was not part of this, though I am sure that would have pleased Gen. Choi as his dream is to spread TKD as widely as possible.

If you want to read a very indepth book on TKD's hostory and politics "A Killing Art" is a good one, but it is not unbiased. It is also a good idea to pick up Gen. Choi's autobiography from TKD Times "Taekwondo and I" I would also recomend studying Gen. Choi's book "Taekwondo" either the big book or the 15 volume encyclopedia explaining all of the anatomy and science behind real TKD moves.
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