|
|
| Author |
Message |
Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
|
 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:41 am Post subject: Minimum number of students |
 |
|
What is the bare-bones minimum number of students to maintain your dojo operational under the present rates?
With this number in mind, how many students can an instructor manage at one time without anyone else assisting?
This is a question often overlooked when planning to start up a dojo. According to the author of "Small dojo, Big profits" the number an instructor needs to stay open(rent, overhead, etc) is over 100. Does this sound reasonable? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:36 am Post subject: Re: Minimum number of students |
|
|
Yes...it does sound reasonable, but it's not written in stone, imho. Too many variable parameters exist!! Beside, who wants to only break even...month after month...year after year?? I don't!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not ever read the book but then the way my mind works, when a book title use a term like 'big profit' its already not making its way to the top of any of my reading lists!
100 students across different classes to serve different ages and abilities!
Sounds about right, yet still I am aware of clubs with smaller head count that that that have been operating for years!
With due respect to all, a dojo IMO should come into being for plain and simple love of the art, profit, profit comes later!
club dues,licence fees, and so on pay the rent, pay for equipment, like cooking get these ingredients right the results/rewards is measure in a larger student base and silver ware!
To look at MA as a profit line, I say to you three letters:
G.K.R.
_________________
“A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate.
Last edited by Hawkmoon on Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Indeed there are many very successful schools with much less than 100 total students. From memory, the very first dojo where I started had around 70 total students for the first years and had been doing very well for at least 5 to 7 years before that. Then again, the instructor had a very good day job as a technician in a private hospital at the time. There is an obvious difference when the instructor has no other source of income. Breaking even is still a very good start and the first step to making it work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jaypo
Purple Belt
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 520
Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
We have around 30 core students with children cycling thru constantly. And we do enough profit to keep the dojo open, maintain it, and put a few dollars into our C.I.'s pocket as a supplemental income. It's not his main source of income, so he doesn't need it to bring in huge amounts.
_________________
Seek Perfection of Character
Be Faithful
Endeavor
Respect others
Refrain from violent behavior. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
Our dojo has 40-50 students. And we're less than half the average tuition price. Adults are $55/month, kids are $45/month. Each family member takes $10 off the regular price (i.e. I pay $55, my daughter pays $35; when my other daughter goes, she'll pay $35).
My CI and his wife just retired from good paying day jobs. We're pretty sure the dojo pays for itself, pays for their training, and maybe a nice vacation every year. They opened a dojo because they love training and teaching, and an infamous split of the top two instructors in the area resulting in no Seido dojo to train at least until they opened their's. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Pred
Green Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 385
Styles: Goju Ryu
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
I would say 100 is a good number. It also depends on whether or not the CI and or owner owns the building. If he or she owns well costs to the instructor can be a bit more reasonable.
_________________
Teachers are always learning |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hawkmoon wrote: |
Not ever read the book but then the way my mind works, when a book title use a term like 'big profit' its already not making its way to the top of any of my reading lists!
100 students across different classes to serve different ages and abilities!
Sounds about right, yet still I am aware of clubs with smaller head count that that that have been operating for years!
With due respect to all, a dojo IMO should come into being for plain and simple love of the art, profit, profit comes later!
club dues,licence fees, and so on pay the rent, pay for equipment, like cooking get these ingredients right the results/rewards is measure in a larger student base and silver ware!
To look at MA as a profit line, I say to you three letters:
G.K.R. |
To the bold type above...
I don't look at the MA as a profit line, BUT, as the owner of a dojo/retail, I do look at the P&L because that's what a responsible business owner does. The P&L is the pulse of any business, and if there's no pulse, then that business is dead. All of my dojo's were for profit; that's why I opened them...to make a living so that I could provide for my family and I.
My dojo/retail is a business! No matter how I might try to make it appear that it's not a business, in the end, that's exactly what it is.
Please believe me when I say that I'm the furthest thing from a McDojo!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| While few will be in perfect agreement about the methods, the mere fact that a instructor makes a living teaching is not a new idea, nor does it follow that doing such a thing is wrong, dishonourable or unethical. A so-called mcdojo is a mcdojo because of how it makes profits and what it sells, not just because it makes a profit. It is much more complicated than that and one should be careful not to sling that label about too hastily. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2358
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
100 Students I feel like is a good round number as a minimum to keep things running.
On a Monday and Wednesday my club operates 5 classes on each of those days (10 Classes) so for my sensei he says that for all the expenses he has to operate the club he needs 20 students for each of the juniors classes and the main seniors class, but usually 10 for the advanced seniors class.
We operate 16 Classes per Week (5 Mondays, 5 Wednesdays, 4 Fridays and 2 Saturdays). All of our Juniors classes normally fill between 15 - 35 kids, our main Seniors (Adults + Teens) have usually 17 - 25 Students.
Our Advanced Seniors usually are between 3 - 6 students but for my sensei it doesn't matter how many students he has as long as he can teach and have a space to teach. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
on the post.
