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gzk
Blue Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 278
Styles: Shootfighting, BJJ
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 Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| You mention that the newer students get a lot more grappling work than striking work to start out. I have also seen that the new Modern Army Combatives training starts out with grappling as well. The first level is grappling, and then they move up to the striking and Thai style kicking. Just a trend I noticed. |
The philosophy, I think, based on how I learned, is that you start from possibly the worst h2h situation imaginable - you're mounted - and learn how to escape. Also, there's the idea that most people can throw some sort of punch intuitively, whereas grappling, to start with, is highly unintuitive.
[edited to remove unfounded assumption]
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Battling biomechanical dyslexia since 2007
Last edited by gzk on Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 14618
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Those are all very valid points, gzk.
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nine_weapons
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 155
Styles: muay thai, judo, bjj
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| You mention that the newer students get a lot more grappling work than striking work to start out. I have also seen that the new Modern Army Combatives training starts out with grappling as well. The first level is grappling, and then they move up to the striking and Thai style kicking. Just a trend I noticed. |
In MMA, it's almost impossible to see a match which has no grappling whatsoever. because of this, grappling skills are essential, possibly moreso than striking. kicks are even less of an importance as they can lead to easy takedowns if the timing is off or the kick is weak.
grappling
boxing
kicking
I would put them in that order if training for mma, and possibly on the street, depending on what you train for. As a bouncer or LEO, we are not permitted to strike unless the situation is extreme, which places an emphasis on grappling for us. |
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nine_weapons
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 155
Styles: muay thai, judo, bjj
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| gzk wrote: |
| Our head instructor has run training courses and been an advisor for various military groups both here and in the US, so if you're noticing more grappling at the start, there's a reasonable chance he had something to do with it. |
if you look at the army combatives manual from as far back as WWII, the curriculum was judo based - grappling. How old is your instructor? |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 14618
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| nine_weapons wrote: |
In MMA, it's almost impossible to see a match which has no grappling whatsoever. because of this, grappling skills are essential, possibly moreso than striking. kicks are even less of an importance as they can lead to easy takedowns if the timing is off or the kick is weak.
grappling
boxing
kicking
I would put them in that order if training for mma, and possibly on the street, depending on what you train for. As a bouncer or LEO, we are not permitted to strike unless the situation is extreme, which places an emphasis on grappling for us. |
That is a good point, as well.
So, you are an LEO? I work as a Detention Officer at a county jail. Grappling/restraints are important.
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Adonis
Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1014
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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The field manuel for Combatives in the Army has been up dated. The main person in charge of Army combatives is a brown belt in BJJ. As well as black belt in other arts.
Its true Army starts off combatives doing ground training. Its easier to go all out, while working for postions. and what not. Its safer to do that Then it would be for stand up striking. Its easier to teach and get the skills across to the soldier. Safety is a huge key factor. Can't have soldier out due to training injury's which can jepordize the mission.
Army Combatives consist of BJJ, judo, wrestling, boxing, mauy thai, and Kali/arnis. With the fundentals based off of BJJ but adapted for the needs of the Army. |
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nine_weapons
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 155
Styles: muay thai, judo, bjj
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 14618
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, you can train hard, with aggression, and with decreased risk for injury.
I am curious, though; does the grappling level of training just go from the ground, or do they work any type of takedowns?
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gzk
Blue Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 278
Styles: Shootfighting, BJJ
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| nine_weapons wrote: |
| gzk wrote: |
| Our head instructor has run training courses and been an advisor for various military groups both here and in the US, so if you're noticing more grappling at the start, there's a reasonable chance he had something to do with it. |
if you look at the army combatives manual from as far back as WWII, the curriculum was judo based - grappling. How old is your instructor? |
I've edited that out, as it is an unfounded assumption based on articles I read rather than any actual knowledge of the US army combatives system.
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Adonis
Black Belt
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1014
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| They do cover take downs, striking both with empty hands, and improvised impact weapons. |
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on the post.
