Talk martial arts at KarateForums.com
Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> General Martial Arts
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

datguy
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 29 May 2011
Posts: 90

Styles: Taekwondo, Judo, and Kickboxing.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:31 pm    Post subject: Muay Thai and Jeet kune Do Reply with quote

Just a couple of questions: I know Karate has their katas and Taekwondo their forms but does Muay Thai have anything similar?
Also, what are your thoughts on Jeet Kune Do? Lets say there's an instructor who wasn't even a disciple of Bruce Lee or one of Bruce's student's students? Could it still be a legitimate instructor? Thanks for your time.
_________________
“Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

MasterPain
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1886
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Psycho Drive and Spanish Ninjitsu

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never heard of a Muay Thai kata.

I think it should be noted that any student of Bruce Lee's that was an adult at the time of his death would be at least 60 years old now. Provided 10 years of training to produce an instructor, which is a longer time than many arts require, an instructor could be 5 generations removed in direct lineage. Given 5 years, it would be 10 generations, possibly with forgotten lineage.
_________________
Fear cuts deeper than swords.- Arya Stark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Dobbersky
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 1320
Location: Manchester. United Kingdom
Styles: Black Tiger Karate Do

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never seen Muay Thai forms although you could "create" forms by putting a handful of combinations together

JKD - so much hype about this style, I personally don't see any difference between JKD and Filipino Martial Arts, Bruce "borrowed" a lot of techniques from many styles to create his JKD.

Bruce was a good actor and a good Martial Artist, but it doesn't make anyone else as good as he was just because they do JKD.

Regards Lineage, who cares really unless it means something to you. If its a style you wanna practice and you like what he teaches you just go for it but take it at face value, I'd recommend Ashihara or Enshin Karate if you want a modern hybrid
_________________
"Challenge is a Dragon with a Gift in its mouth....Tame the Dragon and the Gift is Yours....." Noela Evans (author)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Groinstrike
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 923
Location: Richland County
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Krav Maga, Jeet Kune Do, BJJ M

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dobbersky wrote:
Never seen Muay Thai forms although you could "create" forms by putting a handful of combinations together

JKD - so much hype about this style, I personally don't see any difference between JKD and Filipino Martial Arts, Bruce "borrowed" a lot of techniques from many styles to create his JKD.

Bruce was a good actor and a good Martial Artist, but it doesn't make anyone else as good as he was just because they do JKD.

Regards Lineage, who cares really unless it means something to you. If its a style you wanna practice and you like what he teaches you just go for it but take it at face value, I'd recommend Ashihara or Enshin Karate if you want a modern hybrid


That is precisly what JKD is, borrowing from other styles and taking what is most effective.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Dobbersky
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 1320
Location: Manchester. United Kingdom
Styles: Black Tiger Karate Do

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Groinstrike wrote:
Dobbersky wrote:
Never seen Muay Thai forms although you could "create" forms by putting a handful of combinations together

JKD - so much hype about this style, I personally don't see any difference between JKD and Filipino Martial Arts, Bruce "borrowed" a lot of techniques from many styles to create his JKD.

Bruce was a good actor and a good Martial Artist, but it doesn't make anyone else as good as he was just because they do JKD.

Regards Lineage, who cares really unless it means something to you. If its a style you wanna practice and you like what he teaches you just go for it but take it at face value, I'd recommend Ashihara or Enshin Karate if you want a modern hybrid



That is precisly what JKD is, borrowing from other styles and taking what is most effective.


Very true

In fact if I had to choose between JKD and Krav Maga, Krav Maga would be the style I would pick hands down, without any second thoughts
_________________
"Challenge is a Dragon with a Gift in its mouth....Tame the Dragon and the Gift is Yours....." Noela Evans (author)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 24178
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE Combatives

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Muay Thai question has been pretty well answered.

As for the JKD question, it can be tough to figure out if what an instructor teaches is related to what Lee actually taught. There are a couple of factions out there, and they both claim they are following Lee's precepts. And then there are some who latch onto JKD for name recognition, and don't really teach anything of it. Doing some research on the matter will help you decide what you are getting at a school.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
www.chiefswarpath.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger

RW
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 158


PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muay Thai's ancestor, muay boran, did have forms, and some of its moves were actually rather karate-esque:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=357hGHv6sJ8

Question is, why would you want to do a muay thai/boran/jkd form?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

datguy
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 29 May 2011
Posts: 90

Styles: Taekwondo, Judo, and Kickboxing.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the answers! I wasn't sure about Muay Thai though because I know they have that traditional dance (can't name it off the top of my head) and wasn't sure if they had something similar but with a more combative aspect.
As far as JKD goes, my question is why would one need to be certified? Say you have an instructor who is a legitimate wrestler, black belt in whatever, and maybe knows basic boxing. Couldn't they just mix things up in an effective way and call it jeet kune do?
Sorry If my questions may seem uneducated, I just have almost no insight on the topic.
_________________
“Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

kansascityshuffle
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 108
Location: USA
Styles: Kyokushin, muay thai, BJJ

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all honesty, many who say they teach Muay Boran are making it up or learned it from those that made it up. It's about as authentic as finding authentic Pankration. You have better luck finding authentic Kabri Kabrong over Muay Boran.

With that being said, in some of the Dutch/Westernized Muay Thai/Kickboxing camps that have a rank structure, they do in fact have something similar to kata but it's more like the Ashihara/Enshin version of kata. More or less fighting combinations as you progress.

The "traditional dance" in Muay Thai is the ram muay and the wai kru. It really only should be learned if you're gong to fight or teach those that are going to fight. I kind of roll my eyes at those that aren't doing neither that learn it. Each Muay Thai camp has their own version of wai kru/ram muay but typically the main motif is facing off on all 4 sides of the ring as you do it. In Thailand the skill level of the Thaiboxer can often be seen in their ram muay, before they even begin to fight.

This is also another way that ram muay is different than kata...traditionally, only those that fight, learn ram muay...unlike some in karate that learn kata that never fight..and some that focus primarily on kata, and not kumite.

Karate without kumite is ballet and kumite without contact is too theoretical for my liking. Guess I'm too much of a brute for my own good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Dobbersky
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 1320
Location: Manchester. United Kingdom
Styles: Black Tiger Karate Do

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only view of Jeet Kune Do is "forget" about the founder and concentrate on the skills of the Instructor teaching you.
Too many people have Bruce Lee as some kind of "demi-god" who they believe was able to fight and have the same skills in real life as he did in his films!
Muay Thai in the Western World is just Kickboxing.but it just includes Thigh Kicks, Elbows, Knee Strikes, etc. Real Muay Thai/Boran will only be found in Thailand.

For Muay Thai also look at:
Bokator
Lethwei
Muay Lao
Pradal Serey
Sanda or Sanshou

For JKD also look at:
Doces Pares
Escrima
Penkat Silat
Daido Juku
Krav Maga
_________________
"Challenge is a Dragon with a Gift in its mouth....Tame the Dragon and the Gift is Yours....." Noela Evans (author)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> General Martial Arts All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Network: PhotoshopForums.com - Managing Online Forums - ManagingCommunities.com - Patrick O'Keefe

< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Link To Us - Links - Staff - User Guidelines >