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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 14074
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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 Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| legkicker wrote: |
This is funny to me...Ryota claims Karate as his style because of who his father is. I recognize Shotokan and a gyaku tsuki much more than you probably realize. I wouldn't call a left cross a gyaku tsuki...If you really want to call it hidari ashi gyaku tsuki, go for it. I definitely wouldn't pass a student for a rank if they performed punches this way but would in Muay Thai.
This fight was also in 03...If you saw Ryota's last fight in the WFA you'd see that his striking is even evolving more. Franklin has been more active and if they rematched I doubt the results would be the same. Ryota has delved into Muay Thai much more after this fight, and into BJJ, even competing in BJJ tournaments. |
In reading a book on Muay Thai, I found a kind of interesting coinciding idea behind the punching techniques. In a section on pad work, the Thai fighters throw a jab, and then go into the cross motion. When describing the cross motion, the fighter uses the backward motion of the jab to help propel the cross forward, while pulling the left shoulder back, and snapping the hips counterclockwise.
Now, I would say that we could find these types of motions in many Karate/TKD styles, in which the fist is pulled back to the hip/rib, only the fist is kept up to guard the face instead. You are still getting essentially the same body mechanics. The difference is that Muay Thai (and perhaps Boxing; I assume these are the same punches) are bypassing the pulling of the hand to the hip/rib, and keep it up to guard, developing the mechanics that way, instead.
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cross
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1875
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Now, I would say that we could find these types of motions in many Karate/TKD styles, in which the fist is pulled back to the hip/rib, only the fist is kept up to guard the face instead. You are still getting essentially the same body mechanics. The difference is that Muay Thai (and perhaps Boxing; I assume these are the same punches) are bypassing the pulling of the hand to the hip/rib, and keep it up to guard, developing the mechanics that way, instead. |
I agree 100%. Like ive said many times before, throw the punch how you actually will be using it and develop the body mechanics for how it will be applied. Dont learn the body mechanics of pulling the hand to the hip when you are going to modify it later anyway. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 14074
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: |
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I can see reasoning behind both, but I see much more practicalities in the Thai/Boxing style.
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nine_weapons
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 155
Styles: muay thai, judo, bjj
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| DBK wrote: |
| I know it's not Goju or Shorin Ryu, but in both the Kenpo and JKD stuff I've done the fists tend to be kept around the ribs. If the book "Bruce Lee's Fighting Method Vol. 2" is any indication, which it my not be since for all I know it's a worthless money grab attempt, keeping the fists at the ribs would indeed be a break from the traditional hip placement. |
you trained at a jkd school that told you to chamber at the ribs? the schools I have either trained in or seen advocated keeping the hands by the face, like a boxer. |
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nine_weapons
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 155
Styles: muay thai, judo, bjj
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
In reading a book on Muay Thai, I found a kind of interesting coinciding idea behind the punching techniques. In a section on pad work, the Thai fighters throw a jab, and then go into the cross motion. When describing the cross motion, the fighter uses the backward motion of the jab to help propel the cross forward, while pulling the left shoulder back, and snapping the hips counterclockwise.
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this is what I was taught. However, I was also taught the same thing in karate, even though we chambered at the hip. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 14074
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, and I research Medieval Combat
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| nine_weapons wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
In reading a book on Muay Thai, I found a kind of interesting coinciding idea behind the punching techniques. In a section on pad work, the Thai fighters throw a jab, and then go into the cross motion. When describing the cross motion, the fighter uses the backward motion of the jab to help propel the cross forward, while pulling the left shoulder back, and snapping the hips counterclockwise.
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this is what I was taught. However, I was also taught the same thing in karate, even though we chambered at the hip. |
Yeah, I think in the end, the same mechanics result. It just ends up in different places.
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ninja4life14
White Belt
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 9
Styles: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, judo, tkd
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| i personally think putting ur hand on ur hip leaves u more open to attack on that side of the body. When we punch in ninjutsu we keep our hand right above our rib cage,so we can block an oncoming attack. Also, we dont turn our punches, its more effective to use a vertical facing fist. hope this helps. |
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nine_weapons
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 155
Styles: muay thai, judo, bjj
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| ninja4life14 wrote: |
| i personally think putting ur hand on ur hip leaves u more open to attack on that side of the body. When we punch in ninjutsu we keep our hand right above our rib cage,so we can block an oncoming attack. Also, we dont turn our punches, its more effective to use a vertical facing fist. hope this helps. |
1. IMO, having the hand over the rib is still too low. Way too low. use your hands to protect the fact. The elbows and forearms protect the body.
2. structurally, the vertical fist is correct. However, the horizontal fist s used for various reasons.
- to add more snap into the punch
- if you are wearing gloves, the turning motion creates friction. Friction rips skin, causing people to bleed. In the ring, bleeding can end a fight. |
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ninja4life14
White Belt
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 9
Styles: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, judo, tkd
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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yes, but i do not use gloves, in a real fight the horizontal fist works better, in tkd we guard our face with the opposing hand, but i find it more effective to go through my techniques with my hand above my rib cage. Also, its more effective to block with the fist, like every kung fu and ninjutsu practitioner knows...  |
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nine_weapons
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 155
Styles: muay thai, judo, bjj
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:08 am Post subject: |
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I am a former kung fu practitioner. the lower body should be defended by the elbows and legs. these are called bone shields. If you have to drop your hands to block something, you are leaving your upper gate wide open.
in a real fight, there is no differenece in the speed of the horizontal and vertical fists, and negligible if any difference in power. If anything, the horizontal would porbably be a tad more powerful due to the extra usage of (CMA term here) coiling. Like I said, the vertical is structurally more correct for alignment reasons, which may even the power between the two types of fists.
also, depending on the angle of the punch (a hook punch) the vertical is less likely to result in a broken pinky knuckle.
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on the post.
